How Family Mealtime Impacts The Behavior of Children

Transcript

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:
Hi Everyone, welcome to the show — I am Dr. Nicole Beurkens and my guest today is a great friend of mine who shares my passion for getting families eating meals together on a daily basis. Leanne Ely is a certified nutritionist and the host of savingdinner.com, which is an awesome website — if you haven’t been there please check that out.

Her syndicated column, ‘The Dinner Diva’ appears in 250 newspapers nationwide, she writes a popular food for thought column on the ever-popular flylady.net website and hosts ‘The Dinner Diva’ radio show on Blog Talk Radio. She’s a New York Times author of several books, and not only all that, but Leanne has raised 2 kids through to adulthood, so she gets the real life issues that are involved with meal planning, getting kids around the table, getting kids involved in the kitchen — and I’m really excited to have her share tips and strategies to make this easier for all of us. Welcome to the show, Leanne.

Leanne Ely:
Nicole, it’s so great to be here.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:
I can’t think of somebody better to have on to talk about this topic because I know you are so passionate about this and have been talking about this for so many years now, just the simple, yet powerful process of getting families around the table to eat meals together. So I’d love for you to talk about why you are so passionate about families eating together.

Leanne Ely:
Well, you know this is the one place where we can gather as a family and we are united, we’re all together — you can see it right there, it’s a great visual: We’re at the dinner table, everyone has a place at the dinner table and I think it unconsciously puts a value on everybody sitting there and the children feel a part of, there is the connection that needs to be made. And you know, the studies have shown — it’s very, very clear that when we are sitting down as a family having dinner, we are more likely to be eating more nutritious food, so there’s that big plus.

And plus — the whole psychological, and you understand this critically, the whole psychological element of being there, being together, being a part of something, being ‘this chair is reserved for Jimmy’, this chair is reserved — this is their place. And the children, the security, the bonding that happens at the dinner table, you just can’t talk enough of, as you know. So that dinner table too often becomes a place to dump the junk mail and the book bags and things like that, but if we start treating it like the sacred place that it is, things turn around.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:
I love that and I think it’s so true. It seems like such a simple thing, right? Sitting down to have meals together. But there are so many powerful things happening there and you’re right, the research about families eating more healthy food when they are cooking at home or eating together around the table.

There’s also some really important research that has come out in recent years about the — just family relationship benefits, communication benefits, cognitive benefits for kids of being in families where meal times together are prioritized and many parents might not be aware of that — that when we’re sitting down to eat meals together, it is not just a nice thing to do, there is real research behind why that is such a positive thing for our kids’ development, and I would say especially if you are raising kids who have challenges — whether those are emotional and behavioral challenges, learning challenges, all of those things are benefited from being together around the table, so yeah — a simple thing, but it’s powerful. Right?

Leanne Ely:
Super powerful. In the study, there’s a CASAColumbia study, which is a think tank at Columbia that came out, and every year they update the research, and there’s now powerful research coming up which shows that children who are having dinner at the table with their families are less likely to have eating disorders, they’re going to do better at school, they’re not going to be as promiscuous, if we could have that kind of a guarantee, why wouldn’t we do this — you know? We’re raising our chances that things aren’t going to… poof! Go in our face, you know?

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:
That’s powerful, I hadn’t heard some of that research, so I love it! It’s even more powerful than I thought. And I think part of the resistance, part of why this isn’t happening as a norm in a lot of families, is because as parents we can perceive a lot of barriers like the kid doesn’t want to do this or I’m too busy, or all of these kinds of things.

So what I love about what you share is really some down to earth, practical strategies for helping families think about — how do we do this. So what are some of the starting points that you want families to consider if they’re thinking, wow — we really should be doing this, or we should be doing it more often. Where should they start?

Leanne Ely:
Well, you have to start first and foremost, and it’s usually women. It’s usually the mom who is the dinner planner, the mom who is the one doing all the things. But we have to look at the perspective, from the perspective that it’s not a one-woman show. This is the family dinner table. This is for the family, right? If it’s for the family, then sit down as a family — and I mean as your children are capable, old enough, etc. Sit down as a family and discuss, what would you like to eat for dinner? And you start making a menu plan from there.

Because if we plan something, it’s going to happen. We’ll have the food for it, you know we can’t expect that we can just go off the cuff and expect to get dinner at the table night after night. Night after night, I guarantee you, they’re going to want to be fed. So having a plan in place and having that food there is going to make a big difference.

That said, once you get kind of a community aspect, a kind of an agreed upon – this is what we’re going to make this week, then take one of the children with you to go shopping — or make it a thing that you do yourself. Or give it to your husband and make him do — whatever, but disperse the responsibility. Secondly, bring the family into the kitchen to help you. It is not a one-woman show. I always say to the women, because 99.9% of the time talking to women is: Have a discussion with your husband.

Don’t spring it on him, and he’s going, “Where did this come up!” Left field! Just have a discussion. Say, “You know what? Dinner time is overwhelming for me.” I need some help. And it’s our family dinner, therefore, I want to start training the kids on certain aspects of it and I need you to come alongside with me and let’s do this together.” And get an agreement before you even start to approach it with the kids.

So once you have that, you go ahead and you bring the children into the kitchen, start teaching them to cook. When my two children were little, they each had a little apron that they decorated themselves. They had little hooks where they hung them up, they had little step stools. Monday and Wednesday, it was my daughter’s turn in the kitchen. Tuesday and Thursday, it was my son’s turn in the kitchen.

They each had my undivided attention. Can’t always do that if you’ve got a whole gaggle of kids, obviously — but as much as you can, it’s a great time too to build that relationship in doing something.

And I learned a really valuable trick too — my son, was a little bit… you know how kids are with some textures. Salad — I couldn’t get him to eat a salad to save my life. So one day he was 7 years old and I said “You.” — it was his turn in the kitchen, “You get to make the salad.” So he trashed the kitchen. It was just every… what do you want to put in it!

He kept looking at me and saying, “Am I doing this right?” And I kept saying, “Whatever you want to do.” By the time we sat down for dinner, he had 3 helpings of salad and kept asking everybody, and of course, we were praising him like crazy for the salad — but the point is hands-on nutrition? You just can not beat that, when they have their hands on and doing, is so much more effective than “Eat this, eat this, eat this.”

Kids can put up a whole lot of resistance, and picky eaters, that’s a completely subjective topic, because you know — there are 3000 definitions of picky. But the thing is, when children are touching the food and they’re a part of the process, even if… go choose some lettuce at the grocery store, bring it here, we’re going to go wash it, here’s a stool — the more they’re into it, and believe me at first, it’s such a pain in the neck.

It is, it’s easier to do it yourself — I’m not going to lie. But in the end, you get your kids trained, and I will tell you: This is a true story — my daughter, freshman in college and she prepared Thanksgiving dinner for her floor at school. She asked me a bazillion questions. But my children both left the house knowing how to fully cook anything. And they both have… I’m watching their Instagram, both — and my son’s got this whole video of this breakfast he’s making. That’s pretty good-looking stuff there, son!

So not only are you giving them the nutritional advantage and getting them to more likely eat what they have, but you’re giving them the responsibility of understanding what goes into a family meal and not keeping them in this little padded box where all they’re doing is either doing their homework, watching TV or they’re playing a video game. They need to be a part of — it’s super important.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:
I completely agree about getting them involved, because there are so many different, not only life skills but even social and emotional pieces that we are working on there and academic pieces, right? Like learning how to measure, and there’s a lot of math involved in the kitchen.

You just get so much bang for your buck even with 5 minutes of time spent in the kitchen with your child. And I think a lot of people overlook that because it’s as you said, it just seems to us like it’s quicker for me to do it myself. And one of the things I tell parents is: You don’t have to involve them in preparing the entire meal.

Most days you probably don’t have time to do that, especially depending on the age or the functioning level of your child, just involve them in something. You can involve them in chopping up something or stirring something or getting something together to help not only with spending that time together with them, but helping them feel connected to the process.

Leanne Ely:
Absolutely. And cleaning up as well — important. And also when they’re at the table, manners. How many times have you seen a child, I mean it’s like watching a wild animal at the table. Your dog would do better. So learning the gentle art of conversation around the dinner table, all of these things — you don’t have to train as much as you just have to let them pick it up.

They’re sponges, they’ll pick this stuff up and they’ll learn all of these things. So it seems like a lot and it is, but like you said — it doesn’t have to be the entire meal and it doesn’t have to be hook, line, and sink or all the things. Just one little job. You know, a 3-year-old can put spoons in the dishwasher.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:
Yeah, absolutely. What about, because I can hear in my mind some of the questions or concerns that come up in parent’s minds around us. They go, okay — So I get it, I should have them sitting down and we should be eating meals and cooking in the kitchen and all of that, but I never made it an expectation. This is not something our family has done. What do you say to parents about how to initiate that process if it’s not something that has been a culture of their family before, what are your thoughts on that?

Leanne Ely:
Well I mean it depends on where you are with your children and their ages and etc. But I always suggest, I think family meetings are terrific, even with the younger ones. When you sit down and you have a family meeting and you say, “You know? I really want us to eat better as a family together. And here are some ideas that I have. And, you know what? In the process, you’re going to learn how to cook!”

And I will tell you this, because you know — and we both travel in a lot of the same circles, I have a lot of friends who have children who are younger, and they send their children off to cooking camp. They send them off to camp and they pay hundreds of dollars so they can learn how to cook because they don’t want to do it at home themselves.

And you know, you can even say, “We’re going to have cooking camp at home on Tuesday nights. You get to have it at home, and I’m going to show you what to do! And here is something that I’m learning” And just, if you put an element of fun in it, it’ll happen.

And the other thing is having this idealized Norman Rockwell thing of, we’ve got a child over here peeling a carrot and another one over here — and everything is happy, we’re all wearing matching aprons and music is playing, you’re about to light the candles on… it’s not like that. It’s totally chaos, except that… it’s your chaos though, and have gratitude for that.
I think if we can change our mindset and get away from this perfectionist notion, it’s not an instagramable moment.

It’s crap and kids are everywhere, and you’ve got to get out of the trap — what did I tell you about this, don’t eat the dog food! It’s all the things! You have all the things going on all the time! Embrace your chaos, embrace your family, fix the things you can fix and just do the best that you can. It will get better as time goes on. I promise.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:
‘Do the best that you can.’ I think that’s such an important message because a lot of parents, moms specifically, tend to beat themselves up for it not being that picture perfect thing. I tried, you know, having my kids help me in the kitchen once, or I tried having a sit-down meal once and it didn’t measure up at all to what I thought it should be so, we can’t do that anymore! Just keep working at it is what I hear you saying — start with something and just work at it and it’ll get better!

Leanne Ely:
Right, and you know — the other thing is, just so you know, this is what we’re going to do today — on Friday, we’re going to have game night and order pizza, or whatever it is that you do. But you give them, just show them — this is what you want to do. And start steering the boat to the destination of your choice.

And if you just let it go, you’re just going to be all over the place, and really there is nothing more frustrating than trying and then stopping and then trying and then stopping, you know, in order to get through the hard stuff, you have to get through the hard stuff. You can’t give up.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:
Yeah, and you talked earlier about women. You were talking about sitting down with their partners to talk about — this is what I’d like to do, and kind of getting on the same page and I wanted to circle back to that, because I think that is really important.

And I’m thinking about some of the obstacles that parents have shared with me that they have run up against with something like family meals, where we have to start as the adult, modeling what we want the kids to do, right? So if we’re saying we’re going to have family meals, that means my partner and I need to be on the same page about… that we’re doing that. Because if dad is off eating in front of the TV or doing whatever, and we’re saying to the kids, we’re going to sit down and have this family meal, that’s tough, when we’re not on the same page and modeling that.

Leanne Ely:
Right, it’s like sitting down with a carton of ice-cream and telling your kid to eat an apple, right? I mean it’s just like, hello! Wait a minute! So you have to, and I know that a lot of times there’s push back and there’s always that… you know, when we have a habit, we have to think about it — and you’ve heard this before too, when we have certain habits, we create ruts, like in the wagon wheel, we just create those intense ruts.

We have those ruts in our brains too. We have this tendency to go back to that. We have a tendency to go back to what it is that we know, what it is that we’ve done. And to break that habit, we need to create an environment that responds to a new habit that we’re trying to create.

So having that conversation, like you said, with your partner and saying, “Look, this is really important to me. And it’s got to be for you, these are your kids too.” Or these are step-kids or whatever it is, “We’re in this together, right? And if we’re in this together, we want to do better, then we have to do better.” So let’s plan on it, say he has — like I’ve heard this. This is my 19th year of doing this.

My husband always works late, this, that, he’s out of town so much, this, that. I get it. Do the best that you can with what you have. Just because your partner is out of town all the time, and maybe he’s home on the weekends, that means that you do the best that you can during the week. And on the weekends, when he is home, you make it a point that that’s one of those nights that you do it together as a family. It’s important that your children see both parents model this kind of behavior. It is not a one woman show.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:
Absolutely. And I think for those parents who are listening, who are saying okay — I get that this is really important, my spouse is on board with this, but I just can’t get one or more of my kids to engage with this. And that is a challenge for some families, especially if your child has a more severe developmental disability, behavioral disorder, things like that.

And I just want to pick up on what you’re saying about doing the best you can, I think even in those situations when you have a super resistive child or a lot of issues around that, you still create the standard as a family that this is what we do, and even if that kid doesn’t always join you at the table or maybe they stay there for 2 minutes and you let them leave, or maybe they hole up in their room or whatever, I think even in those more extreme cases, still setting the standard and modeling what it is that you want to have happen, there is great benefit in that.

And I have seen it happen time and time again, where even really resistive kids will start to pick up on what’s going on and will join in at some point. Maybe that takes one meal or ten meals or a pair of meals or whatever, but not allowing your child’s challenges or resistance to dictate what you do as a family, I think is huge, especially with something like this.

Leanne Ely:
Exactly. And you know, I mean I haven’t had — I’ve had an ADD child and one who was super rebellious. Same child. And so I got to the point where, and I actually said this to him when he was 13: “You’re not going to hold this family hostage with your behavior. So if you are going to decide that this is the way you’re going to be, super disruptive and I’m not and this that the other thing, I just excused him from the table and we continued.”

So we all have things, and we all have our reasons why things don’t work — if we can look instead at the positive, what one little thing can I do that might make a difference with this particular child.

Because at the end of the day, don’t all kids want to feel like, “Hey, I did it.”? Don’t they? You can give them one little tiny thing. It might not be like come in the kitchen and help with whatever, because they can’t do it. But if you give them one little tiny thing like, put the napkins down on the table — and they do it. Wow!

Stickers, fireworks, celebration! You know? Everybody. We all live for that, we are all Pavlov’s dog. We all want that reward, we all do. So we can work from that, we work from the littlest, tiniest place that we have to start — to we have a big picture of what we want, but we start with the tiny details of what’s going to work for everybody.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:
Yeah, find the successful starting point, not just for ourselves as the adults with implementing this, but also for each of the kids. And I think that we underestimate the power of that connectedness. And I love what you said at the start about the family dinner table, everyone has their place.

And that sense of belonging and inclusiveness and being a part of and being connected, I think about a lot of kids, especially kids with these kinds of challenges — they don’t get to experience that very often. School is often not a place of security or connectedness or inclusiveness for them.

They may struggle with even having friendships where they feel connected to other people. So it really strikes me that the power of this dinner table of everybody having a place whether you happen to be there at that moment or not — this place is reserved for you. And should you choose to come and join us, we’re here and we want you here and we’ve got a spot for you, and boy, that’s just really powerful!

Leanne Ely:
It is really powerful, and I think that in our attempt to make sure that our children are “well-rounded”, and I say that with quotes — You know, I became a homeschool mom and I dropped my kids out of all the activity and stopped the craziness. The crazy making.

My ADD son was not doing well, because the more we did, even though they were great, fantastic activities, the more we were gone — get in the car… I mean my whole, I just remember coming out of my mouth multiple times a day, hurry up, get in the car.

Hurry up, get in the car. Hurry up, get in the car. Grab your backpack, get this, get that — and it just… I’m not suggesting everybody do what I did, but at some point you have to take kind of an inventory of where you are, and are you giving up those precious moments for all these enrichment activities and what have you that are out there, when maybe just having a dinner at home would be so much better than going to scouts or going to this, or dance lessons or music or whatever.

My whole heart is: I don’t want people to miss out on their kids’ childhood. Dinnertime with our children is something that is just a commonplace thing. We have one way… we don’t have one way, we have a way to elevate it so that it is something that brings security and comfort to a child, or we have a way of making it chaotic like everything else that’s going on. And if you think about it, because you were talking about the dinner table, it’s the only time that we sit down as a family unless we’re around a TV but somebody else is commanding the attention.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:
Yeah. And that’s a powerful thing and speaking of TV, I wanted to ask you to touch on this, because I have a feeling I know what you’re going to say and I’m sure it’s in alignment with what I tell people, but it used to be when I was growing up, the thing was you’re not allowed to sit while eating in front of the TV.

Now we all have these devices and little TVs and things — we don’t need to be sitting in the living room or in front of the TV — even little kids have these things. So what do you say to parents about the use of electronic devices at the family mealtime?

Leanne Ely:
No.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:
I knew you were going to say that!

Leanne Ely:
The simplest, simple thing: Don’t bring them to the table. You know? My older children, it’s funny because we all had Thanksgiving today and I saw their phones and I said, “You guys!” And of course there are pictures taken of whatever and we are in that whole Instagram, ‘This is what I’m eating.’ kind of thing, which really — you start to really boil it down, that’s completely crazy.

But I think we need to have that kind of a rule because we are plugging in. In order to plug into our family, we need to plug out from social media, games, anything that has a screen needs to be off. It’s one thing if you do, “We’re having a family game.” Or “We’re going to watch a movie.” And you have kind of set it up so that’s what’s happening that night, then it’s special. And it’s a treat, instead of — that’s just the way we do dinner.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:
Yeah, it doesn’t count as sitting down to have connected time together when everybody is doing their own thing with their face in their own screen.

I can’t believe how many restaurants I go to, just observing families there and it’s like you’re out to dinner together, but you’re not together, everybody’s got their face in a device and again, I think that starts with parent modeling, of here’s the expectation, here’s how we engage in conversation in mealtime together. And this is a no-device zone and I think that’s a really simple but powerful expectation to set for that mealtime together.

Leanne Ely:
Sure. I think it is, and I think devices and iPads and phones and all of that can distract us from the most important thing that we want, because at the end of the day, those kids are going to be gone, I promise you, they graduate from high school, go on to college, get married.

My daughter has been married for 5 years. I have experience in this. And during the time that I was raising them, we didn’t have quite the smartphones situation — that wasn’t quite on the thing, but there were still times where I fought those devices, tooth and nail, and I am so grateful that I did because I had that time with my children.

Can you imagine if you are looking back on your child’s childhood and it’s kind of a blur and you can hardly remember anything because you’re sitting there nursing your baby and you’re on the phone? At some point we’ve got to just say “Stop, that’s enough.”

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:
I agree, and I think mealtimes are a great starting point for families who are struggling with that and for parents who are struggling to set limits with their kids. Meal times makes it real clear and it’s a very clear boundary to set if you haven’t done any of that yet with your kids, saying we have device-free meals together is a great starting point, I think.

Leanne Ely:

And if you had had the habit before of ‘anything goes’ and they’ve been able to do the phone, then start weaning them off. So this is what you can do: Just let them sit at the table with their device to start, and just say:

“Okay, look we are not…” at the end of the week, or end of the month or whatever you decide, whatever is appropriate for your family — “We’re not going to have these things anymore at the table.” “While I’m getting dinner on the table, however, you’re allowed to have it.” And then you pass a basket, have everybody put their device in it and we’re done.”

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:
That’s a great tip because I think that’s a struggle that a lot of people face, how do I start with that? How do we wean from that, and I love that kind of approach of setting the expectation and then implementing it gradually and having a basket there for it!

Leanne Ely:
Yeah, and you can get them after dinner! You’re not taking away their life-saving device.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:
This has been so great and so helpful. The time flew by. I want to make sure that I have you share with people where they can find you online, the kinds of resources and things that you have available because you’ve got so much out there.

Leanne Ely:
Sure, so if they go to savingdinner.com, that’s my website and they can get a free meal plan for the week if they want to just take a look. And we have all kinds of meal plans because I know that a lot of families are dealing with food allergies, food sensitivities, all kinds of things.

So we take that into consideration, we’ve got your classic family style, which is just no allergies, no sensitivities at all, low carbohydrate, AIP — autoimmune protocol, as well as Paleo diet and Keto as well. So some families are doing Keto and it works really well for their children, so we have those menus available.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:
Yeah, and that’s great because many of our listeners do have their children on specialized diets because of the various conditions and issues that they have, or it’s just what they do as a family, the parents are doing that — and I love that you provide the recipes and the menu plans for all those different options.

Plus, your website just has tons of great recipes that people can download and great tips and information, so definitely head to savingdinner.com to check that out. Leanne, I’m really grateful that you were willing to spend the time with us today, this has been so helpful. Thank you for being here.

Leanne Ely:
So great to be with you, Nicole.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:
Alright, everybody, we will see you next time for our next episode of ‘The Better Behavior Show’.