How To Help Teens And Tweens Manage Anxiety

Episode Transcript

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the show. I’m Dr. Nicole, and on today’s episode, we are talking about tweens and teens, specifically how to help them manage anxiety. Kids in these age groups are experiencing more stress and anxiety than ever before. Even before the pandemic, we were seeing research showing that teens report levels of stress as high as middle aged adults were reporting just 20 years ago. So kids in these age groups, they are feeling it, and especially after the last two years. And when kids experience anxiety, it impacts their life in lots of ways. As a parent, you may really feel at a loss to know how best to support your kid and help them create better mental health habits for themselves. This is what we are going to be exploring today with the help of Dr. Melanie McNally. Let me tell you a bit about her. She’s a licensed clinical psychologist who helps Gen Z’ers become the superheroes of their life stories. She provides online support through teletherapy and coaching online programs and books that teach Gen Z’ers how to build self-confidence, manage anxiety and achieve their goals. Dr. McNally founded Therapy Bootcamp, an app-based psychoeducational service for Gen Z’ers to get therapy tools delivered right to their phones. It’s an eight week program where they build self-awareness and develop coping tools, all while being able to DM Dr. McNally directly, right up the alley of kids in this age group for sure. Dr. McNally has worked in the mental health field since 2005, and teaches the skills, strategies and tools she herself has used and continues to use. And on a personal note, she’s a fellow Michigander, although she lives in the UP of Michigan, and I live in Grand Rapids. But it’s great to have someone else from the state of Michigan on the show. Welcome, Melanie, so great to have you here.

Dr. Melanie McNally

Thank you, thank you for having me.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

I would love to start by actually having you share your story of how you came to be, maybe in the field of psychology to begin with, but specifically focused on this age group. Because honestly, this is not the most popular age group for people in the field of mental health to focus on, and yet that’s really your specialty. And so I’d love for you to just share your journey of how you got here.

Dr. Melanie McNally

Yeah, so I grew up dealing with a lot of anxiety myself. And I had no clue how to manage anxiety, I didn’t even really know what it was. So when I was a tween and teen I was struggling with worries about my future grades, my parents constantly fighting, you name it, I worried about it. And on top of that I grew up in a pretty dysfunctional home where we weren’t taught how to deal with our feelings. And instead, we are taught that you hold everything inside and you never share with anyone anything that’s going on. So I really wanted to touch on this generation, the younger people, to teach them that there are things that they can do to feel better, because I myself didn’t know how to do those things when I was their age.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

It’s so true. I think for many of us, we grew up in homes with really well-intentioned parents who were just operating in the way that their homes had operated, which is: Put a smile on. Everything’s fine here. We don’t talk about issues with each other. And we certainly don’t talk about them with people outside the home. If we act everything’s fine, then it is fine.” And that really does take a toll doesn’t it?

Dr. Melanie McNally

It does. We know that it’s not good to hold things inside. But it’s a balancing act. We don’t want to overshare, we don’t want to be telling everyone everything that’s going on. But we can’t just hold our feelings inside. We can’t just hold our anxiety inside because it’s going to come out somewhere, whether it’s through physical symptoms, stomachaches, headaches, and that’s what I dealt with a lot as a kid, was my stomachache.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Those physical things, I think so often parents don’t recognize the anxiety or the stress or the emotional connection to that right. And yet, that brain body piece is so huge when a kid is feeling a lot of distress or anxiety or whatever it is that’s going on, that does. The things that I see most commonly in tweens and teens are the stomachaches and headaches, right? To the point where some of these kids get diagnosed with chronic migraines, or chronic GI pain, or irritable bowel, and that is so tied into their emotional experience.

Dr. Melanie McNally

Yeah, I can’t tell you how many clients I’ve had come through the door because they had GI issues. They have gone to their pediatrician, they have had the scope done, they have had all of these tests, everything done where the doctors haven’t been able to find anything. And then ultimately, they decide, okay, this must be anxiety. But they are kind of ruling everything out first before they get to that point. And a lot of times it’s unnecessary, because we can figure out right away: There is a lot of stress and anxiety going on in this kid’s life, and we can give them tools, we can give them things that they can do to help themselves feel better.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah. I want to pan out a little bit. We are going to get into specifics of all this, but I want to pan out and just really get your commentary on what you’re seeing happening with tweens and teens right now. We have sort of got the general mystery that a lot of parents feel around kids at this age anyway, right? This tween and teen phase of development can be tricky for parents to understand and navigate, and for the teens themselves to navigate. But then we also have this overlay of the last two years of everything. And so I’m curious from your perspective, because this is really an age group that you focus on. Give us the lay of the land. What do you think is happening for tweens and teens right now?

Dr. Melanie McNally

Yeah I feel for them so much. I don’t know if you’re a Dave Chappelle fan, but it was in one of his stand ups where he said that teens today, it’s like they are experiencing 911 every day. With the onslaught of information that they get delivered right to their phones, whether they want to or not, it could be a celebrity sharing something on Twitter, they are not even necessarily following a particular news source. But they are getting information through Twitter, through Snapchat, TikTok, and they are bombarded with an influx of constant information on what’s going on in the world. So with climate change, racial injustice, income inequality, what’s going on currently with Russia and Ukraine, they are seeing all of that information. And then on top of that, they are getting information that is filtered through highlight reels, filters, so they are getting images where people don’t necessarily look like themselves or are kind of Avatar versions of themselves. And then it’s somebody’s highlight reel on top of that, so they are only seeing the good, and that contributes to them feeling they are never going to be good enough or smart enough or popular enough. They always feel they are missing out on something. And so with all of that extra information that they are getting, it does lead to an increase in anxiety and decrease in self-esteem and self-confidence. We saw at the end of 2021, when the surgeon general released a report showing how anxiety and depression has doubled during the pandemic. But like you mentioned at the beginning, we know it was already on the rise before the pandemic even started. So there’s so many factors that are contributing to an increase in these mental health issues.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah, I’m glad you touched on a lot of the issues of bombardment with information and 24/7 access to social media and all of that, because I think the phase of development that we call being a tween, or a teen, has always been tough, it’s designed that way naturally, right? It’s this phase of life where kids are navigating their own individuation from their parents, but also still needing support. It’s a tricky time of development. I feel like, as both a parent of older kids, and also a professional working with kids, that it really is more difficult to be a tween or teen today than it was when I was a tween or teen. It’s always been hard, but I feel it’s much harder in today’s world.

Dr. Melanie McNally

Absolutely. And you said something too about that, the adolescent development period where — adolescents already feel they are on center stage. And with social media, they are on center stage. And so it’s putting a spotlight on that developmental issue that already exists. But I agree, I do think it’s a harder time. I was talking about this with somebody just the other day. I’m 45. So when I was a kid, Desert Storm happened. I only knew about that if my parents had the nightly news on or if a teacher happened to mention it at school. That was it. Kids today with the Russian invasion in Ukraine, I have kids that are getting live updates on Twitter. It’s like a football game, they are watching a play by play. They are getting information on TikTok, they are seeing videos, and who knows if some of those videos are real, or if they are fake? But they are getting all of this information in real time as it’s happening. And that can lead to a lot of feelings of helplessness. We are just sitting here watching something really horrific go on. And yet, we can’t really do much as an individual citizen or as a kid, right?

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Well, and that’s the thing. I mean, as adults, we struggle with navigating the constant onslaught of information. And here, we are talking about kids whose brains are still developing. Their prefrontal cortex is still in major development mode, and expecting them to be able to process all that, it’s so much.

Dr. Melanie McNally

It is.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

One of the things I’d love to have you touch on is so far, we have talked around stress, anxiety, kids will use those words to describe things, but I’d love to have you break down for us and for parents: How do we tell the difference between stress, which can be good — we need to have some amount of stress, and anxiety, also recognizing that some anxiety is healthy and normal? But how do we tell the difference, and maybe even more specifically, how do we know when anxiety is really becoming a problem for our child?

Dr. Melanie McNally

Yeah, so first we have to know the symptoms of anxiety. So we have to know what those are. And so symptoms of anxiety include constant worrying or excessive worrying. And so that could be worrying about grades, the future friendships, it could include social worries about what other people think of me, being judged, or public performance. It can include some of those physical symptoms that we talked about earlier. So anxiety can mean stomachaches, headaches, GI distress, there might be avoidance behaviors, where tweens and teens aren’t participating in things like friends’ birthday parties or auditioning for school play because they are so anxious. They might show inflexible behaviors or a lot of rigidity, where they have a really hard time when things don’t go as planned. And for younger kids, that could even look like difficulty transitioning from one activity to another. So just a lot of noticing those types of symptoms: Trouble falling asleep, trouble staying asleep. Those can also be symptoms. And so when we know those, and then looking at ultimately, how do those symptoms impact their level of functioning. So like you mentioned, it’s kind of a spectrum. Anxiety can be helpful, but then it can kind of move down that spectrum and can cross the line and become harmful. And so looking at their main areas of functioning, which would probably be home, school, and friendships, and how it is impacting them in each of those areas. So if it’s causing them to miss out on doing things that they really want to do — You know your kid loves theater and loves performing, but they won’t audition for the school play, that could be a sign that it’s crossed that line, and it’s harming them. So if it’s preventing them from functioning. If they are nervous about a test, that anxiety could be good, because it could push them to study a little harder, to ask to work with a tutor. But if they get to a point where they can’t sleep the night before the exam or they have such a bad stomachache, they can’t go to school, or their mind goes blank when they sit down to take it. Now we know it’s crossed that line into that harmful territory.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

So the context is really important, too, right? As you went down this list of symptoms, I can imagine a lot of parents listening going, “Oh my gosh, my kids done all those things.” Yeah, my kids have all too. And the key is, are they appropriate in the context? And are they happening for a prolonged period of time? Like a situation with one of my own kids the other day, who was feeling quite a bit of anxiety around some school assignment issues, and it was very appropriate. His anxiety was contextually very appropriate because he had slacked off, he had not been managing things well, and he had kind of dug himself in a hole and he knew it. It’s like right, anxiety is the appropriate response here. And he was able to think through it and work his way out. So the context is critical, that these things happen to every kid, but are they getting in the way of normal functioning? Even thinking about being worried about things, and I think about what’s going on now, I think about what’s gone on in the last two years with Covid. I think about what’s going on now with this Russia-Ukraine situation. It’s normal and expected for kids to be experiencing some increased level of anxiety, it would be sort of weird if they didn’t, right. But it’s this issue of is it getting in the way? And is it more than we would expect? And I think that’s really the piece that you’re talking about is important for parents to be in touch with.

Dr. Melanie McNally

Definitely, because like you said, they are going to experience anxiety. We all do. It’s a part of life. But how impactful is that anxiety? And is it preventing them from doing the things they want to do? It’s like with adults, watching news around the clock, right? Feeling just a constant state of stress, and they are agitated, they are irritable, they are not sleeping well at night. Obviously, that’s anxiety that is not healthy. And if that continues, then we are starting to consider an anxiety disorder. But you also mentioned the idea of how long it goes on. And that is a key indicator there. It’s not something where if we experience it once we have anxiety, because obviously we all experienced anxiety. So that’s inevitable.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

I’m curious, one of the things I’d like you to touch on before we get into what we do with this — I think it can be tricky for parents with tweens and teens to look at their behavior sometimes and to sort out “How might anxiety be showing up?” And one thing I’m thinking about is, I’ll work with kids whose parents will say, “Well, they are angry all the time, just angry all the time. They are hostile”, whatever. And they are pinning it on an anger management problem. And as we dig into it, actually, the anger is a cover for this being a severely anxious kid. And I think that can really be surprising for parents, we are just looking at the external behavior. So I’m curious along those lines, what are some of the tricky things that you see, the things that can trip parents up, or maybe what they are seeing they are attributing to one thing, where actually it might be anxiety?

Dr. Melanie McNally

Yeah I think you touched on the key one, which is anger, or irritability. I’ll hear a lot from parents about just a constant state of irritability. And sometimes with teens, it can even look apathy, where they are just saying they don’t want or are not interested in social relationships, they are not interested in doing certain things, and the parents might see it as they don’t want to have friends or are not interested. But really, they actually do want to have friends. So you do want to be social. They are just so anxious about going over to a friend’s house, or they are really anxious about approaching a new friend group or who to sit with at lunch. So it can look like apathy, it can look like irritability and anger. We talked about the physical stuff, which a lot of times, that shows up behaviorally, where the kid will deny left and right that they are nervous about anything, but yet every Sunday night there’s a stomachache, or after a long weekend, they have a really hard time going back to school on that Tuesday or whatever. So looking at those types of things, too. And sometimes even sadness can actually be a front for anxiety, where kids are worried about so much, they don’t know how to manage those feelings of worry. They feel the weight of the world. And it just ends up feeling sad, because they feel helpless. They don’t know what to do. You mentioned procrastination with your child, and that sometimes can show up where if somebody is so anxious about something, they will put it off and put it off and put it off. So they are so anxious about the speech they have to give in school, they are scrolling on social media, they are finding every other thing. They are organizing their room. They are baking cookies, and they are doing everything possible. And then the night before the presentation now, all of a sudden, they are freaking out because they were so anxious about it.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah, excellent points. And the other piece that is coming to mind, as you’re talking about that is, and this tends to be for older teens, although certainly we can see it in tweens and younger teens, is the whole issue of substance use too. Very often, when I have a kid who comes in who the parents are concerned about substance use, at the root of that is a lot of unmanaged anxiety, a lot of un-navigated emotions, a lot of that, and I think that behavior is also really misunderstood in kids, and the focus is on “Don’t do this, this isn’t healthy, you have this addictive behavior.” And really, as we know now, all of that kind of addictive behavior is rooted in trying to cope, trying to manage a lot of things, anxiety being one of them, right?

Dr. Melanie McNally

Definitely, yeah, absolutely. You see that a lot with alcohol. They might feel like it makes them a little bit more social, or it gets rid of that social anxiety. I see it a lot too with your marijuana use and with how easy it is now to receive products. So using that as a way to cope with those feelings of anxiety, even social media, that addiction, and using that as a way to avoid participating in life. Gaming, video gaming can be a way to help avoid participating in life, a way of coping with anxiety. So, absolutely.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

I’m so glad you raised those, because those are big ones. And I think that we tend to as parents, and even professionals, focus on the external behavior without stopping to make sure we are really having empathy for what’s going on underneath that, for why our kids are struggling with that stuff. Because that’s really where the magic happens, right? If we can have empathy and understand that what’s really at the root of this is a lot of anxiety, a lot of uncertainty, it gives us better ways to approach it than just focusing on the behavior of “I can’t believe you’re using drugs in my house/how could you do this?/You have to go to school/Why aren’t you getting good grades?”, when we can have the empathy for “Oh, this is actually a scared kid.” I think that goes a long way as a parent, doesn’t it?

Dr. Melanie McNally

It does. And I think that starts with the parents who are able to create an environment that’s very non-judgmental, which I know can be really hard to do. But having that space where a kid feels they can talk about the things that they are feeling anxious about, and they know they are not going to be shamed or judged for doing so. And so then that’s a proactive way of cutting off some of that stuff before it even becomes an issue, because they know they have a place where they can share what they are feeling. They can talk through what they are thinking, and they know mom, dad, or whoever isn’t going to judge me for this, they are not going to ridicule me or belittle me. And that can head off some of those issues.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Of course, that requires that we as the adults are willing to acknowledge and manage our own anxiety about all of that, right? Which is often where that becomes problematic, doesn’t it?

Dr. Melanie McNally

Yes, you do see anxiety get passed down for sure. Sometimes it can be a little bit of a learned behavior. And you’ll see, not even if mom or dad is really anxious, but even how they talk about other people or situations in their life. So if they are making fun of, let’s say somebody who, I don’t know, an Olympian who didn’t do so well, and they are kind of mocking that or are talking about, “Oh, what a shame, they failed.” That is information that that kid is now internalizing, like “Okay, failure is bad/If I make a mistake, I cannot go to mom or dad with that because that’s how they view it.” So they are internalizing a lot of that dialogue, too.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

An excellent point. And of course, in order to be able to have open dialogue with our kids and accept how they are feeling, we have to not let ourselves be triggered by it, right? I know that sometimes when their kid starts expressing their anxiety or their emotions, parents out of the best of intentions start to get triggered like “Oh, my gosh, something’s wrong.” And it’s out of our own distress and anxiety that we shut down those conversations and we try to make that go away because we can’t handle it. And then that just creates this problem for the kid then where they are like, “I have nowhere to go with this.”

Dr. Melanie McNally

Yeah I’m laughing because I actually just had this happen the other day with a client, where something had happened, and she must have triggered her dad’s anxiety. And she didn’t turn in an assignment. It had a really big impact on her grade, but when her dad was upset about it, it ended with him yelling at her about being able to pay taxes as an adult.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Wait, what?

Dr. Melanie McNally

She doesn’t even know what taxes are! And now she’s in trouble for not knowing how to do that in the future. But you could see where he came from, you kind of see that snowball effect where “If you can’t turn things on time, you’re not going to be able to have a job”, and you could just see that ball rolling down the hill and getting bigger and bigger. I’m not a parent, so I don’t know what that’s like, I’m sure It’s really tough to manage, but having to be able to intercept that snowball before rolls down the hill and gets to that huge, massive one and being able to manage it — and if that means parents need to step out of the room and take a break, that’s totally okay. And actually great, you’re modeling a really great coping mechanism.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Or even to acknowledge after the fact, “Wow, I really went off the rails with that one, I got really triggered by that. And suddenly, I went into future mode and started talking about taxes, and I realized that wasn’t helpful. Let’s talk about that again.” Actually, I think we are so afraid, as adults, to acknowledge that stuff with our teens, but actually, they really respect us for it. And they appreciate our ability to reflect on our own stuff and come back and communicate with them in that way. And I think a lot of adults don’t realize how powerful that is.

Dr. Melanie McNally

Yeah, I have so many teens, where they will tell me when they have had a fight with a parent, and when the parent does come back and say, “You know what? I screwed up.” They will talk about how meaningful that conversation was, it brought them closer to their parents, versus a teen who will share some sort of encounter with their parent, and the parent doesn’t own up to the mistake that they made. And the teen, they are well-aware of what happened. Now they are seen as, “Okay mom or dad can’t apologize, they always have to be right.” And so again, that parent is setting the stage for an environment that’s not very conducive to openness or conversation.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah. Let’s get into things that parents can do to help. So we have talked about what the signs of high stress levels and problematic anxiety are, how we notice that, where we maybe go wrong or are a little misguided in our approach with that. So what are some of the top things that you advise parents to do to help kids in this age group?

Dr. Melanie McNally

So first, I think parents need to role model the good mental health habits that they want their teens to actually use. So when we think of the foundational parts of good mental health, we think of sleep. That is a foundational part for good mental health for all humans. I mean there’s a reason why sleep; sleep deprivation is used as a form of torture. We need sleep, we need daily movement, we need social interaction, we need some sort of extracurricular or a hobby, we need to turn off our devices before bed. So parents need to model that type of behavior themselves, because if you’re preaching to someone else, “You need to turn off your phone before bed”, but they come in your room, and you and your partner are laying in bed scrolling on your phones, you’re not making a very good case. So parents need to use those same foundational aspects of good mental health and model them. And then also make them a part of the daily routine, talk about them, where if a parent misses their yoga session or they miss their evening jog, to mention, “Gosh, I noticed I’m much more irritable tonight because I missed my exercise, I didn’t get any physical movement in, and that’s such a great tool to help me manage my own anxiety.” So to talk about those things so that it’s just incorporated into daily life, and you’re also educating teens on really good daily mental health habits.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

And with kids in these age groups in particular, that modeling and that just raising things in casual, day-to-day interactions is so powerful because they are at this developmental stage where they do have sort of this tension with us of “I don’t want to listen to what you have to say. If you tell me I have to do this, I’m not going to do it”, which is kind of true of all kids, but it’s especially true of kids in these developmental stages. And so I feel what you’re saying around us focusing on ourselves and being a model, and sort of coming in the side door with some of these things can be especially useful for kids in these age groups.

Dr. Melanie McNally

Definitely, and car rides, I feel like car rides are the secret portal. Parents will always talk about having these great conversations in cars. And it makes sense because you’re a little distracted, you’re not sitting down at the kitchen table facing one another having this intense dialogue. You’ve got other things to come kind of interfere with the conversation and to give them a little bit of a break if things get too intense. So using those types of moments. It doesn’t have to be these intense family dinners every night, or we need to have these moments together where we have these great conversations. They can happen in these little snippets here and there, and then just making sure that parents also are doing the things, modeling it. So even if you’re not saying it, you’re not saying what you’re doing to manage your mental health, but they see you doing it. They are like, “Oh, Mom. There she is doing her yoga again.” And so it just kind of becomes a norm for them.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Love it. So us as the adults getting clear on the importance of these daily mental health habits, and then modeling those and instilling those in our kids. Okay, awesome. What’s next?

Dr. Melanie McNally

Well, another great tool, so one of my favorite tools for teaching teens and tweens how to manage anxiety is a tool that’s rooted in DBT. So I don’t know if you’re a fan of DBT.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

I love it. Yup.

Dr. Melanie McNally

One of the things that they teach there is mindfulness. And they break it down into three really easy, digestible steps to practice. And so I use this a lot, because it’s so helpful. But when they talk about mindfulness, they talk about that we observe, we describe, and we participate. So first, we just observe what’s happening to us physically. We are just kind of noticing whatever’s going on internally, we are noticing any thoughts that we have. Next, we describe these things to ourselves. But when we describe, we do it without labeling. We are not judging ourselves; we are not shaming ourselves. And then we fully participate in the present moment. So when a parent is kind of teaching this to their kid and how to use it, a good example is thinking of when you’re in class. Let’s say you’re sitting in class and you’re starting to feel really weird in class, you’re getting a little nervous. So first, you’re just going to observe, you’re going to notice what’s going on internally. And as you’re noticing it, you’re describing it to yourself. So you’re saying, “I’m getting butterflies in my stomach. I’m starting to feel hot. I feel a little jittery.” But we are not labeling it. We are not calling it anxiety. We are not judging ourselves. We are not saying, “Oh, I’m so dumb, nothing’s even happening. Why do I feel this way?” All we are doing is just kind of noticing these things. And then we fully participate in whatever’s going on. So if I’m sitting in class, that might mean I’m going to pay attention to what the teacher is saying. Or maybe that means I’m going to look around the room and notice different colors, or if there’s a window I can look out of, I’m going to look at the clouds going by, or maybe I’m going to notice smells. And if you’re in a high school classroom, there’s probably a nice variety of smells. So you’re going to notice anything that’s sensory, and then pay attention to those things. And it’s just a way to kind of get you into the present moment and out of your head a little bit. And so parents can teach that tool. And they can practice it at home when they’re cooking, or they can practice it when they are doing schoolwork or listening to music, and then encourage them to use it when they are at school, or when they are hanging out with friends, reminding them of that tool. And when I teach it to teens, I always say this isn’t going to make your anxiety disappear. It’s not a magic button where poof, you feel great. The idea is that it’s going to decrease it to a level that feels much more manageable.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

I think that’s such an important point. Because often parents and kids will say, “Well, I want to make the anxiety go away.” And it’s like, “Well, you’re a human. So that’s not going to happen.” We just need to shift our relationship to our anxiety, and I love the strategy that you just shared that what we are really helping kids do there is to get out of the story spinning in their head, and just grounded in the reality of what’s actually happening in the environment. Because with anxiety, we just tell ourselves all kinds of stories and we believe them. And so I love that, and he said, “Let’s focus on the sensory, let’s focus on “What do we smell right now? What are we feeling? What are we looking at?” And that gets us out of those stories, which is such a powerful and simple and free tool that all kids can learn to use. And I feel so many adults who I’ve worked with over the years say, “I wish someone would have taught me these things back when I was a kid. It would have helped me understand myself so much better. It would have saved me so much difficulty”, and so what a gift to be able to give our kids these tools now.

Dr. Melanie McNally

Exactly. And that’s exactly why I started working with tweens and teens, because that was exactly what I needed. That would have helped me so much when I was feeling nervous and anxious at school. But I do encourage parents when they are talking with their tweens and teens to teach them that it’s going to take practice. It’s a skill that you’re building. You’re probably not going to get it on the first try. It’s just like when you started playing soccer, you couldn’t just run out on the field and start dribbling. It took a lot of practice and a lot of work. And it’s the same thing when we are learning how to manage our anxiety. We have to put in a little bit of work, we have to practice and think of it as a skill that we are building. The more we do it, the easier it’ll get.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah, so true. How about one more simple, maybe unusual thing or something that parents might not think of, something that they can start doing or that they can teach their kids to do?

Dr. Melanie McNally

You know, a really simple and easy one is just asking, “What’s the worst case scenario here?” So a lot of times, parents will avoid asking that question because they think that they are going to cause their kid to think about that. But news flash: They are already thinking about it. Maybe they just haven’t shared it. So you are just asking them, “Okay, what’s the worst that could happen here?” And you have them play it out, the worst case scenario, and then you come up with a plan. Like, “Okay, so if that were to happen, what would you do? How would you deal with that?” And it’s a really quick and easy thing that just lets kids understand that first of all, the worst case scenario usually isn’t as scary once we say it out loud. A lot of times, it’s ridiculous when we say it out loud, and then we laugh, because we realize how absurd it is. But then also, we can handle hard things. So even if everyone laughs at me when I stand in front of the room, like “Okay, what would you do? How would you handle that?” “I guess I would just kind of stand there. Or maybe I would start laughing at myself too because I just mispronounced a funny word.” Letting them see that they have the internal resources to handle hard situations.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Perfect. And I think the modeling of that too, even for us to share, like “Oh, I’m really stressed about this. Okay, let me think through it. What’s the worst thing that could happen here? What would I do?” I think that’s so powerful. Before I wrap up, I have one more question because this comes up a lot, a lot of people in DM’s on social media or on email ask me, especially with this age group of kids: When parents recognize that their child is struggling with anxiety or whatever mental health issue to the point where they really exhausted their resources, they need some professional help now, whether it’s just because parents feel like, “Okay, we really don’t know how to handle this”, or “We are doing a lot of good things, and our kid is still really struggling, we need some professional help.” That can be tricky, because parents will say, “My 14-year-old/My 16-year-old…”, or whatever, “…won’t go to see somebody.  How do I talk? What do I do when my tween or teen says ‘I don’t have a problem, you have a problem. I’m not going to see anybody.’” And so I’m curious if you can speak into that for parents who maybe are in that situation.

Dr. Melanie McNally

Yeah, so one thing is to see if there is any buy in at all, any problem that they are struggling with, that maybe you don’t even necessarily think is a problem, or you don’t see it as connected to the overall issue. But if there’s any little buy in that you can get to just get them in the door and to let that therapist kind of work their magic. So if it’s something where maybe they are complaining because they want a boyfriend. You don’t see that as a huge issue. And in fact, you don’t want them to have a boyfriend. But that’s important to them. And so maybe approaching it like this is somebody who can help you figure out why it’s been so hard to find a boyfriend. Maybe that’s kind of the buy in, and see if they can develop a relationship with a therapist and build it from there. If they are really, really resistant to talking or to opening up to somebody, even approaching different formats, I have found that teletherapy has helped a lot because there’s a screen between us and they feel less vulnerable, less embarrassed. So seeing if maybe teletherapy is more up their alley versus in person or vice versa. Or if there are some workbooks. There’s a ton of great workbooks for teens, when you go on Amazon or you just type in “teen anxiety workbooks”, you can find some really great ones that are rooted in evidence-based strategies, and just kind of passing it off to them and seeing if maybe that would get the ball rolling to get them to start thinking about things.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah, I think those are great. And ultimately what I say to parents too, is “Look, if you try a variety of things, and you absolutely are unable to get in the door, there’s great benefit in you, as parents seeking out, going to appointments, seeking out the professional help to help you as the parent know how to engage and respond and structure things differently.” And there’s great value in that, even if you can’t get the kid in the door.

Dr. Melanie McNally

Yeah, and sometimes it’s even the parent getting support, too, because they are so stressed out managing their child’s behavior, or maybe the poor mental health of the child is causing so much turmoil at home. And so it gives them some extra support there too. Definitely.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah, that’s an excellent point. I know that you have a unique option that you offer for kids in this age group to be able to get some support around this. And I think in a really smart way, because as you said, Gen Z, kids now in that age group really prefer to do things sometimes in an online format, those types of things. So as we wrap up, I’d love for you to share where people can find out more about your work, and especially the boot camp that you offer and what you have available for people.

Dr. Melanie McNally

Yeah, so well, first of all, if anyone’s on Instagram, you can always follow me, I’m @DrMelanieMcNally. Over there. My website is destinationyou.net. And then I have a therapy boot camp, which you can find on my website, or you could type in destinationyou.net/therapy-bootcamp. And my therapy bootcamp is an app-based program. It’s eight weeks long, so it has a start and an end date. And they are getting evidence-based strategies to help with building self-awareness, learning coping tools, and working on communication skills. And so there’s cohorts for it. And when you’re in a cohort, you have access to a group chat, you’re able to DM me and talk with me about it, or about any questions or issues that you’re having throughout the bootcamp. And like I said, it’s an app. So it’s alright on their phone or whatever their preferred device is.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Awesome. Love it. Such a needed thing, such a great opportunity. So I encourage everybody to go check out what Melanie is doing over there. Thank you for the work that you’re doing with this age group, because it’s so needed, more than ever before. And also thanks for spending time with us today. This was great.

Dr. Melanie McNally

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

And thanks, as always, to all of you for listening and for being here. we will catch you back here next time