How to Improve, Repair & Rekindle a Relationship When Parenting

Episode Transcript

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Hi, everyone, welcome to the show. I’m Dr. Nicole, and today we’re going to talk about how to navigate relationships with our partner while being parents and dealing with all the things that kids bring into our lives. It’s super easy for us to get laser-focused on all the duties and issues involved with our kids, especially for moms, and especially when we have maybe one or more children who has some extra challenges or needs. But this can impact our relationship with our significant other in ways that are not always helpful. It’s challenging to balance all of this, and both men and women can feel misunderstood along the way. The reality is that fostering a healthy relationship with our partner actually helps us to be better parents. So to help us think through all of this and to share his experience as both a therapist and a dad, I’ve invited Eli Weinstein on the show today. Let me tell you a bit about him.

Eli is a social worker who has worked in a psych hospital intensive outpatient clinic, and currently runs his own private practice in New York and Nevada. He’s married to his wife Ariella, and has two beautiful children, Ricky and Max. He created the Dude Therapist Podcast and became a therapist to create a modern outlook on mental health. Eli has been featured on the Kelly Clarkson show and multiple podcasts ranging from topics about parenting, relationships, mental health, and more. His main goal is to help people on their journey to add support, care, empathy, expertise, and insight. He also runs events, seminars, and individual coaching on a wide range of topics. Eli it’s so great to have you here today. Welcome to the show.

Eli Weinstein

Thanks for having me, I’m super excited. This is one of the biggest passions I have to talk about as a relationship specialist and a parenting specialist, and these two things colliding. It means a lot to me as someone who’s in it. So thank you so much for having me on, and I’m so excited to add your name to the list of all the podcasts I’ve been on. It’s so exciting.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Well, we had a great conversation on your show back a couple of months ago. And I really was excited to have you on to talk about this from two perspectives. I mean, one is your perspective professionally, because you are a relationship specialist, you deal with these things in couples and individuals who come to you in your professional work. But also, you’re a newer Dad, your kids are little, so there’s a personal piece of this too. And as I was sharing with you before we started the interview, most of the listeners to this show are moms. I think that tends to be the demographic of people who listen to parenting-focused podcasts, although certainly we do have dads in the audience, so shout out to all of you. I think a lot of times these topics are talked about from more of the mom perspective, and I’m excited to share insights from you on the perspective from the dad side of things. I think not only is that important and supportive to all the dads who are listening, it’s also important for those of us who are moms to hear that perspective, because it does help us to just be better in our relationships with our partner. So there’s lots of things I want to get into. But I’d love to have you just share a little bit of your story just to kind of give people a little more of an introduction to you, of how you decided to get into this line of work, this type of focus, because everybody’s got a story of what landed them here. So I’m curious what yours is.

Eli Weinstein

So great question. As a kid, I grew up diagnosed with ADHD, and out of therapy, medication, all these kinds of things, I always found the support and love from the therapist that I had over the years as something that I always dreamed of giving to other people, and I didn’t have the patience to be in medical school for that long. And so you know what, 10 years is a little too long. I didn’t know if I’ll be able to last, and really just started taking psychology courses in undergrad and had an unbelievable Professor, shout out to Dr. Perry. Alan Perry in Touro College in New York, and he opened my eyes to what it truly means to sit and be with a human and be human yourself, and I fell in love with the mental health world, always wondering, always learning about what makes people tick, why people think, do and behave and feel the way they do. It’s always been a passion of mine, I go nonfiction more than fiction any day, always reading. So it’s just something that’s been a part of me. Also, I was always that friend in the side or the corner, always listening to everyone’s problems and giving advice or talking quietly, and God gave me two massive ears. So I thought, hey, something is pushing me in this direction. Let’s go for it. I love what I do. It’s challenging, but I love what I do. And as someone who loves relationships, I love the interplay of human beings and their priorities and needs, and how to express yourself and work on those things with another human being, it’s something that I love very much, and only recently have I been branding myself as a parenting specialist. I don’t know what it takes to be a parenting expert yet, so I’m not there yet. So I’m not going to say it. But as a father of two kids, I found that there weren’t enough male voices in the parenting world, there’s Dr. Dan Siegel, who is unbelievable in everything that he does. And I’m like, you know what? Let’s start having more male voices in the parenting world. So I got more interested in trying to go for trainings and those things, and I just love it. And I also specialize in anxiety too. But those things, parenting and relationships are a passion of mine, because I love, love, and I love parenting as well.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

It’s great, and also, anxiety overlaps with both of those things in a tremendous number of ways. So it’s a good set of specialties. I appreciate what you said about bringing more male voices into the conversation, because I do think that has been a missing component. And you and I both agree that a priority in our professional work is helping to reduce the amount of stigma that people have around mental health in general. And I think when we look at the piece about parenting, there is stigma there too, biased against dads being more involved or informed or, or dads, men feeling like this isn’t their realm, or they weren’t raised in a way to understand this. And so I think you’re breaking down stigma in the realm of parenting in that way too, which I think is really important. I’d like to just have you share, from the professional standpoint, some of the things that you find come up very often around partner relationships, once kids come into the picture. You and I both have partners, I have been married for a long time, my kids are older now. Most of our listeners have a parenting partner, if not a spouse or a partner that they’re living with. And it’s easier before kids in so many ways. I think 99.9% of people would say, “Oh, yeah, I remember those days, it was easier.” And then kids come into the picture, and we love them so deeply, and no matter how much we’ve planned for them and we’re on the same page as far as parenting, things change in our relationship with our partner. And so I’m curious, what are some of the things you find come up most often for people in that realm?

Eli Weinstein

Yeah, I think first of all, the biggest thing is being seen. I think a lot of times when it comes to parents, they get lost, especially in the beginning couple of years when it’s like all in, all the time, I have a three-year-old, the Rickster, Ricky, and my little dude, Max is six months old. You forget yourself, and not that you’re trying to ignore yourself, you just forget yourself. So I think the huge part is sometimes the focus that we’ve had on ourselves for so many years, not in a selfish way, just it’s the only focus we have, is us. The same shift happens when we get into a relationship, where we start focusing on ourselves and start taking someone else into account. And having another human being who really can’t do anything for themselves, who can’t clean up after themselves, who can’t control their bowels, sometimes, maybe a lot of times, maybe too often, depending on the kid, and the blowouts that you have and all the fun times, the fun stories and the laughs that you have. But that to me is number one, where you start losing yourself. When you start losing yourself and the view of yourself, sometimes you pull away. You’re not sure, you’re uncertain about how to relate with your other person. Because if you don’t even know who you are, you’re unsure about yourself, how are you going to put yourself out there for your partner? And I think the second thing is finding your role. I think we lose that balance. I know for myself, and one of the reasons I got called to the Kelly Clarkson show was because of a post I liked and commented on about fatherhood’s roles during breastfeeding. My wife was breastfeeding our daughter. I was not, so I was like this third wheel throughout a lot of the experiences, and not out of want, but out of just the reality. And it was frustrating to feel like I was on the outside going, “Hello, I’m here, I really want to be involved, but I know I physically can’t.” And that was a struggle, right? Finding where I fit in as a father, and where we fit in with each other, right? We’re tired, we’re overwhelmed. We’re not eating the way we used to. We’re not moving the way we used to. We’re not doing what we used to do, not that that’s bad. But now everything’s just — I’ll use this word, not sure if it’s a real word, but I grew up on this word, mishkababled. It’s all over the place. I don’t know if that’s a Yiddish word, but I’m just going to throw it out there. I think it’s a made-up word. Let’s go. It’s a made-up word. It’s a mishkababled. Everything’s just all over the place, right? 52 card pickup, right? It’s just everything’s everywhere. And I think it takes time and compassion and grace for ourselves to find that role. And I remember for me, anecdotally, it was when my wife went back to work and I had paternity leave, which I highly suggest to take if you can, and it was just me and the Rickster. And I found my role, I found my voice, I found my energy, I found my connection with her. And it’s been nonstop awesomeness since. Not that it hasn’t been ridiculous at times. And then I lost her, and then it stopped for a little bit. And now that my son’s in the picture, my daughter is totally attached to me. And my role is shifting. I think that’s number two. And number three is just how drained you are. My wife, I really give her credit for this line that I use very often in interviews and podcasts, for my own thought process with clients, “my tank is low.” When you have the ability to recover, you can fill your tank, but when you’re running on empty, it’s very hard to give to yourself, especially give to someone else. And it’s very hard for that to just turn off when you’re so used to giving and taking and receiving and having that connection with someone, and then because you are just so done and so tired, not that you don’t want to, you just can’t. And you lose that connection. Again, not out of want, but just out of the reality of what’s going on. Those are my top three that I would think are a huge strain in the beginning.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

I think two things I want to say about that: One is, I think for parents of kids with significant challenges, whether those are diagnosed conditions or undiagnosed issues, what you’re talking about, parents can nod their heads and go “Yeah, that wasn’t just in the early years for us, that has persisted throughout our child’s entire childhood, or even into young adulthood.” Because when you have kids with more intense high level needs, disabilities, whatever the case may be, that sort of stage persists. So I want to acknowledge that for everybody listening who is in that boat: It’s tough. Because you’ve read the parenting books, and then you’re like, this isn’t just the early years for us. This is the long haul. And that puts even more long-term strain on the relationship. So there’s that piece, I think what’s so important about what you’re sharing here, is the normalizing of this stuff, because where I see people really get in the weeds with this, is they start to take these things personally because they think it’s unique to them or their partner. And what you’re doing is saying: No, actually, these are things that happen across the board to all of us when kids come into the picture. And I think that’s so critical, because there can be a tendency, at least what I’ve seen professionally with couples, is that they start taking it personally because they assume it’s something targeted towards them or something that doesn’t happen out there in the world. And it’s so helpful to just say no, actually, this is really normal.

Eli Weinstein

Yeah, and I want to just touch on the first thing you just said, I love that idea. You know, my daughter was super easy compared to my son. My son has skin issues, and some GI things, and tongue issues where he’s not taking a bottle, and the strain and the stress is a different world than the strain and stress of my daughter. And the way we are working on the stuff together is such a different world than when my daughter was born. I will say this, and I have permission from my wife to say this, so it’s okay. When my daughter was born, that first year was the hardest year of our marriage because we didn’t know how to navigate. We just didn’t know how to communicate our needs and ask for help or feel bad for asking for help. And for couples and parents who are dealing with a longer struggle with their kids, and the kids are always a struggle, but with extra added things, I just finished reading John Gottman and Julie Gottman’s book, Eight Dates, and I’m about to get Gottman certified, because I’m a huge fan of the years of research that they have and just their perspective, it is just very realistic, I think. Also shout out to Sue Johnson, no shade to EFT and all that stuff. But I was reading the book, and I was expecting it to be for couples who just started off, and it is. But the way they write the practical skills they give for this book, the eight dates is about eight conversations and eight different things that every couple should not just start talking about, but revisit throughout the relationship. And the importance of having a weekly or every other week date consistently, even if it’s at home, even if it’s a movie night. And I took the lessons I took from that book, and something that I literally just finished this week was something that I thought is important for all parents to hear is that there’s going to be an ebb and flow of your relationship. It’s natural. Interests, priorities, life, stressors, job, all these things, but we have the ability and strength to choose our person and make an effort to show up with them however that looks in that lifestyle. And with kids, we lose. We lose the ability to sometimes see that there’s an opportunity or hope. I’m just too tired, I’m too overwhelmed, I have to go to bed because tomorrow is a crazier day than it was today. Summer, school, all these things. And that’s never going to go away. You’re not going to not be tired the next day, or the next day. You’re going to be tired. That’s why we have caffeine and coffee, please be safe, don’t drink too much coffee and get overwhelmed and anxious, and watch out for the energy drinks. But in the end, the ability for us to sit and look at our partner and say, “I really would love to just have a movie night once a week, or that we make dinner after the kids go to bed, for just the two of us, and we have a quiet meal.” It takes effort and choice, and that effort doesn’t go away or doesn’t dissipate. It compounds in such a beautiful way versus you’re going to be tired tomorrow, why not do it now? And it’s very, very hard to choose that when you just have so much to do. So I shout out to parents with 1, 2, 3, 17 kids, you’re about to have kids, it’s a daily effort, a daily choice, it is very difficult to keep that connection and fight for that connection, when it’s so easy to just let it slide.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

It is, especially with the busyness of life and with kids with needs and all of that. I think what you’re talking about in this connection piece is so critical, and you’re talking about the challenge of that, the importance of maintaining that connection, of being intentional about having that connection, but then also the very real obstacles that get in the way of that, right? And each parent feeling misunderstood in some ways. I was meeting with a set of parents yesterday, very high needs 12-year-old son, four other children in the family, and talking about the dynamics of them wanting the focus to be on “Well, what are the next behavioral strategies we need to use with our kid?”, and me looking at the situation and going, “Actually, the issues with the child are just a mirror right now of the immense tension, stress dysfunction that’s going on between the two of them.” And we were able to talk about that and explore the history of that. I can see, I have a lot of empathy for how that comes about between parents, especially after years of, as you said, uncommunicated needs. Both of them feeling unheard, falling into patterns of just disconnection, and you get to the point where you realize: Wow, our kids are not doing we’re having all of these issues, but also we aren’t doing well and we can’t get on the same page because things on our side of the fence have fallen apart. And I think that’s the reality for a lot of people. And so I’m curious, what do you think? You brought up the idea of this connection, sort of that Gottman idea of dates and things like that. What do you think are some of the key things that moms and dads need to understand about each other, or be prioritizing and maybe doing from a strategy standpoint to improve that? Because it can feel, to a lot of people at a certain point, like this is unrepairable. Either I have to spend the rest of my life just saying “This is how it’s going to be or I have to leave the relationship,” it can feel that way. And so I’m curious as to what you feel like are some key things that parents need to understand about each other or strategies to implement.

Eli Weinstein

So with ADHD, I always say two things that end up with 17. So I’m just going to say, let’s just go for it. The first thing I would say is start really small. One of the things that I know I have learned, working in relationships and studying relationships and watching relationships, and as well being in a relationship, small acts of being grateful and saying thank you, because then you help the person, like I said in the beginning, the first thing that gets lost is being seen, right? Because sometimes if we’re not seen, why would I want to show up for you? If you don’t respect or see me as a partner, as an individual, as your love, as your person, I’m not going to want to choose to show up for you. I know that sounds a little vindictive, but our brains work that way. If I’m not getting love, why am I going to give love? So the first thing is showing gratitude, and I mean start so stupid, small. I mean, “Thank you for putting the toilet seat down. Thank you for washing that dish. Thank you for putting our kid to bed. Thank you for making dinner. Thank you for picking up that thing from the store. Thank you for returning this stuff at UPS. Thank you for ordering stuff on Amazon”, anything, anything that happens in our daily life. And the second thing is daily physical connection. I’m talking about a kiss on the forehead, on the cheek, on the lips, it doesn’t have to be a makeout session, it doesn’t have to be inappropriate, in public, or make your kids uncomfortable. But you know, if they may get uncomfortable, have a good time with it, maybe make the kids laugh. Even if it means a little squeeze of the tush, or a touch on the shoulder, or a little massage or scratching of the back. These little things show: I see you, I notice you, I care about you. I saw a Tiktok a while back, where a woman was saying that when my husband doesn’t walk past me and squeeze my butt, I know something’s wrong in the relationship. Right? Small thing, right? Not this is not an argument, this is not screaming and yelling, there’s not cursing out, there’s not saying I’m going to leave you. Small little things that we notice, that we don’t realize what impact it makes on the other person. So first, start small.

The second thing is that we have to be aware that there is a lot of shame and vulnerability that goes into opening up about our worries and concerns about our relationships, especially when we are not sure what is wrong. We’re not sure what’s happening. And we’re just not certain how to communicate it. So if someone is not themselves or off a little bit, and if you have the confidence, say “Hey, babe, honey, cutie,” whatever you call each other, “Monkey,” I don’t care, “something off. What’s going on?” Don’t wait for someone until it gets to a point — research shows that relationships wait five to seven years past their expiration date of help. So don’t wait. If you notice something’s off, speak up calmly, quietly, respectfully, with love and compassion. “I noticed something’s off, what’s going on in your head? Let me in.” Because they might be afraid to say something because they don’t want to admit it, they don’t want to say it, they’re worried about backlash, judgment, or shame.

And the third thing I would say is that it takes a lot of effort to express your needs. So don’t be afraid to also ask for help. I was just working with someone where the husband puts the kids to bed every night, all the kids. And I said, “How come your wife doesn’t do any of it?” He goes, “Oh, I don’t really ask.” I said “Why not?” He goes, “Well, she’s sitting on the couch for like a few hours and decompressing, and I just don’t want to get into an argument.” I’m like, “But why is it an argument? You need help, and you have another person to help. It doesn’t mean that it has to be every night. You deserve your three hour break, she deserves her three hour break.”

So the fourth thing is learning to prioritize and watching the person. If someone has a really long day, say, “Hey, I got the kids, go relax.” And it doesn’t mean that they come first and you come second. That means someone is “winning” or “losing”, and that mentality creates resentment, toxicity, and is a nice combination of frustration, and really the beginning of the end of a relationship. But it’s more that it’s an ebb and flow, and that you are just showing up or seeing their needs right now as important, and something that has to be a priority — Not that yours aren’t. But that is the focus of today’s priority or this moment’s priority. And mine is still there. Maybe it’s a backup singer or it’s a backup dancer, but it’s still on the stage. It’s not thrown off the stage. It’s not someone that hasn’t even gotten into the theater. But the spotlight now might be on your partner or yourself, but you’re still on the stage, you’re still there. Because in five minutes or 20 minutes or two hours or next day, the spotlight is going to be on you, how you need it. But if you think of it as a game where it’s winning and losing, “Oh, you always get your priorities, you, you, you,” I’m sure you get your needs met too. So that’s the fourth thing, it’s making sure that we are flowing with the priorities and not making it a “You win and I lose” mentality.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

I think it’s so easy for couples to fall into that, especially when kids are in the mix, especially when there’s high needs kids in the mix. It’s easy to sort of get into that. And I think it’s subconscious some of the time with that scoreboard kind of thing, right?

Eli Weinstein

The scoreboard is a killer.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

“Here’s what I had to do and deal with today versus what you did.” And I actually I’m going to speak to something really specific here, just in your experience, because I see this come up a lot in families: There is often a fundamental misunderstanding between partners, when one of them carries more of the responsibility for the parenting home aspects, and the other has a role and carries more of the responsibility with the income, earning, working outside of the home pieces. I see it, and it’s interesting for me because I’ve been on both sides of that equation in my marriage and my parenting life, being the primary stay at home parent, as well as being, at other times, the primary working parent. And it’s given me a tremendous amount of empathy for both sides of that. But I think there’s so much misunderstanding. It’s easy for the parent who works outside the home and shoulders most of the financial responsibility to look at and make assumptions about what the stay-at-home parent is doing, or their stress level or whatever. And it’s easy for the stay-at-home person who’s primarily shouldering the parenting and home responsibilities to look at the other parent and go “You have it. You get to have adult interaction all day, you get to do your thing”, and I just eat that creating a lot of strife and breakdown between people, and I’m curious about your insights on that.

Eli Weinstein

I love that question. Okay, so I have a theory. I don’t know if this is my theory. I don’t know. If I ever write a book one day, I’m either going to call it the Holy Trinity, or the Triangle of Truth, not sure yet. And the funny thing is a whole joke of the Holy Trinity is because I’m Jewish and like, “What? How could you say that?” like a cutesy joke, but I think that when we get into this trap of our expectations versus our perceptions, and how that impacts our reality. So I always give this example, that if I work from home, I’m a therapist, I don’t have an office, so I work from home. My wife wasn’t working from home. Now this scenario never happened. This is made up. If my wife leaves the house and looks at the kitchen and sees a mess, the dishes, the breakfast craziness that just happened, and expects me to clean it up because I’m home, and she comes home and sees it there, automatically her perception is because of her expectation, a negative perception. “Wow, Eli is lazy. He didn’t pay attention. He doesn’t do anything around the house. And he’s here all day. He doesn’t care about me. He’s leaving it to me to do and he’s lazy”, whatever terminology you want to use. And then the reality is, there’s an argument that ensues. Now, if we step back for a second and we actually understand what happened, the actual reality, I had three emergencies with clients, I had to go to the kids’ school to deal with something, maybe I wasn’t feeling well, or maybe I was tired and I was going to get to it. But you don’t know that yet. You haven’t asked. You assumed, based on the expectation you had, without expressing that to me, and the perception then of what happens. When we fall into that trap, automatic arguments. I think the biggest thing that we have to do is express ourselves and communicate what our expectations are and what needs we would like to be met. And I think the second part of that whole scenario that you’re talking about with the outside person, the inside person, that’s a comparison game of who is better. I’m better because I make more money. And the other’s like “Well, I’m better because I’m raising our freaking kids, and without me, the kids would be dead.” And all these kinds of “I’m better, you suck, you’re better, I’m better and you suck,” It’s this back and forth like a ping pong game, you’re both playing a massive role. That’s the importance of perspective, is that your role is needed and matters, and the other person’s role is needed and matters. And I think when we have the freedom to express our frustrations about our role, and I know I have to work on this and we all have to work on this, is not taking offense when someone is just expressing their frustrations about a reality of their life, without it being or interpreted as an attack. The example I use is if I’m driving in the car, and I’m from New York, and there’s a lot of hotheads in New York, probably myself included. Now I’m in Vegas, everyone is such a slow driver and so relaxed, it makes me insane. I’m like, “We got to go faster. What are we doing? Everyone’s going so slow”, right? Everyone’s looking at the sun. They’re like, “Oh, my gosh, it’s beautiful.”

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

I remember moving from New York to the Midwest, it was culture shock in every way.

Eli Weinstein

I don’t feel like I can honk my horn. That’s what I feel like, I can’t do it because I might get arrested. It’s like, what are you doing? Excuse me? Relax, man. And I have a New York license still, so people still know like, “Oh, there’s the New Yorker”, right? So I don’t want to give bad rap to New York, but in New York there’s crazy traffic, right? And I scream if someone cuts me off, “What’s wrong with this idiot?” My wife’s in the car. And she starts getting offended that I’m yelling. I’m just expressing myself. It’s not about her, and it’s not about this person, either. I’m just frustrated. When we give a freedom of space and less judgment to someone just expressing a frustration of their reality, without taking it as an attack, we will then not become defensive and aggressive, we will become compassionate and curious. If my wife has a job and she has a job and she says, “Eli, this is making me crazy, and that is ridiculous, and I’m so tired about this and that,” where she expresses her frustrations about my son Max, because it’s very hard, it doesn’t mean that I’m not doing enough as a parent. I might think that, and if I start going “Well, I do so much.” That’s it. I lost her in that moment of showing compassion. And I just now started an argument for no apparent reason, other than the fact that I think you’re yelling and talking about me. It’s not a comparison game, this is not the roles are better. We need to get freedom to express our frustrations and allow the other person to just feel their feelings without it being an attack. And when that happens, we just give each other so much more space to be ourselves.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah. You feel heard. Well, it’s interesting, because as you’re talking about this, those of you who have been listening to the show for a while, this will sound familiar in terms of many episodes we’ve done on how to handle things with our kids. This is fundamental to all relationships, the ability to acknowledge and allow another person to express the truth about however they’re feeling, without making it about us. That’s important for our kids, that’s important for our partners. It’s such a fundamental thing, and it’s hard.

Eli Weinstein

And something to add is that when we validate somebody, the misunderstanding is that we have to agree with what they’re saying or that what they’re saying is 100% truth. No. Validation means I see your point and I see it’s coming from you, and that means something to me, and that means something to you. So I see you, and I respect that. That’s all it says. It doesn’t mean that now I have to change my belief system and my core values and now I have to shift my entire perspective on life. If you want to say what you want to say and you want to express what you want to express, if I love and care about you and respect you. The validation is “Oh, that’s… I hear that. It’s a good point.” I know that sounds like BS to say that and fluff, but it just makes the person in the moment take a deep breath, calm their shoulders, and then feel heard. And then the conversation is that much more successful, versus “That’s ridiculous. That’s insane. Why would you feel that way? Oh, that person’s an idiot. You shouldn’t feel…” There you go. Shoulders are up, aggression, nervous system kicks on, anxiety kicks on because now they feel in danger and attacked. And then it’s lost. So yes, it might be true on paper that someone makes more money and someone does more. There’s actually a research study done, that I think couples believe that they do 75 to 80% more than the other person does, and they each feel the same way about this. So I’m not a math major and I suck at math. That’s why I’m a therapist. But mathematically, it doesn’t make sense, right? Because it’s only 100% of the activities, and you both can’t do 80%. So who cares? Right? Who cares? So one day I do the dishes, and I clean, and I also cook dinner. And if I am feeling overwhelmed by it, guess what I need to do? “Hey, honey, I’m having a rough day. I know you might be tired, but I just cooked like three days in a row. And I’m just… I need a break.” Or “Can you do bedtime tonight and I’ll do bath time?” Just ask, instead of holding on to it and becoming a martyr and saying, “Well, I counted, I did seven times this week.” Who was that for? What are you doing that for? What’s the purpose? You’re trying to prove it, like a dog, you shove it in his face and go, “No, look what you’re doing, you pooped on the floor.” What’s the point of that? You’re trying to prove something. Instead of trying to prove that you are a better parent or a better breadwinner, express what your needs are. “Hey, I wish I could do this/I wish you can help me with that”, and say it in a way that’s more compassionate for yourself and more graceful for the other person, and you’ll be heard, hopefully, if it’s someone who respects and loves you.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Let’s talk about when people feel unheard. I think you’ve laid out some really important fundamental things that are at the core of maintaining good relationships, and repairing relationships that have gone sideways. But I think most, if not all relationships between partners, at some point would benefit from some third party support and guidance, intervention, right? We all hit points where it’s like, okay, we’ve maxed out. Okay, Eli, I’m doing these things. I’m saying it this way, I’m trying to express my needs, I’m not feeling heard, my partner isn’t… you know, whatever. Let’s talk about that because I think there’s a huge stigma against couples therapy. I think people by and large view it as a personal or relational failing, “Oh, my gosh we’ve gotten to the point where we need couples therapy”, people, like you said, they wait on average five to seven years to access it longer than what they should have. I think there’s particularly a sense — and I think it’s a little bit different for men and women, but I’ve seen it on both sides, this idea of this is a personal failing, this resistance to the idea of couples therapy, of marriage counseling, because it’s like inherently putting some sort of official stamp on the relationship or on the people involved that says, “Well, you failed at marriage”, or “You suck as a partner.” And so I’m curious about your observations of that and your thoughts on that because I think this is something that a lot of people would really benefit from exploring.

Eli Weinstein

I truly believe as a couples therapist who works every day, and sees at least one couple or one person when it comes to relationships, that it’s more beneficial to come earlier than later whether you have a problem or not, even if you’re just frustrated or struggling. To have a third party who’s not involved, because something that happens with a lot of arguments is that we get stuck in a loop of “This is my belief and my thought process, I cannot see your thought process. I don’t agree with it. Even though I’m validating it, I hear what you’re saying. It just doesn’t make sense to me. and I think that this is…”, putting whatever word you think that’s negative about that person or the thought process. So first of all, if you’re having an argument or struggle, having a third party is really important, because they’re objective. And honestly, I say this to a lot of my couples: I don’t care. I don’t care about your argument. I don’t care, and not that I don’t care about you. I’m not involved in your life. So after we talk, and after you stop working with me, I don’t care about that. I don’t care about you guys in that way. When I have you as a client, I’m all in, I care about you to the end of the world, and I will do anything I can in my power, but it’s not my life. So there’s a part of me that isn’t invested. So when it comes to couples therapy, it is not a failure. I think a lot of couples go to couples therapy when they’re in crisis. Literally this week, I’ve had four referrals for couples: Infidelity, crisis, overwhelmed, arguments, nonstop arguments, parenting.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

And they have essentially the same argument multiple times a day for 15 years.

Eli Weinstein

So what I would suggest, is one: If you feel that even a tinge of frustration or annoyance in a couple and you’re not being heard, going to couples therapy just means it’s like going to a friend who’s not invested in your life. So there’s no talking about it every day with that friend, or rehashing, or seeing them at a birthday party or seeing them at a family event. So the earlier, the better. The stigma is still true. Right? The stigma is still real. I feel like men, specifically, feel like that is a failure more than women do. I have often had women call me and say “My husband doesn’t want to come. Can you call him and convince him to come?” Or we sit in the couples therapy and the husband is just harrumphing and intense and closed off, and the woman is ready to just go. And there’s many reasons for that, and it’s societal with men and mental health and opening up and vulnerability and emotions and all that fun stuff that we can have a whole episode about on its own. But the reality is that we all deserve help. And if you want to be in a relationship that is healthy, and you enjoy, and you don’t have such disdain and despair and frustration about, why would you not get help? I mean, if you have a medical issue, you get help. You don’t go like, “Well, I’ll just suffer for 15 years. I have this thing sticking out of my throat. And it’s weird, but you know, I’ll just cover it, I’ll cover it with my shirt somehow.” No! You go get help. And I think that we are in a place where, especially at this day and age right now in the history of the world in 2022, I don’t doubt that every single couple has gone through ridiculousness because of the pandemic. And I say this jokingly yet very, very real. If you have come out alive and healthy, and your relationship is somewhat intact, you are successful in life. Every couple was tested, every couple was pushed, boundaries were crossed, roles were mixed and matched, stresses were at the highest it’s ever been. That’s going to impact because you’re human. And I say this story a lot, Dax Shepard and Kristen Bell, the Frozen Queen, Anna, go to couples therapy. And they don’t go because they’re in crisis. They go because they have kids, and life is hard, and they got crazy jobs, and they just need a place to vent, yell and scream, recover, love each other and leave. It’s not in their home and not in their safe place that is their comfort, but somewhere else that is not in their day to day life. It’s hard. Couples therapy is not fun. And I will say this, I know I look like Harry Potter, depending on the angle and the day, and depending on how much weight is in my face. I don’t have a magic wand as a couples therapist. And there’s nothing I can “fix”, but I’m here to help and listen and support and teach practical skills and simple skills that people forget so often when it comes to couples. A lot of times, they’re a lot simpler than we think it is. And sometimes you just need someone to just give you that TLC and compassion, and the little tools, and it can go a long way.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Right. And I think that space to feel heard, I think what a lot of people are concerned about, men especially, is that a therapist will take sides or align more with the mom or the female partner, and I think it can be a profoundly important experience to realize that no, this is about both of you having a chance to express yourself, to be heard, to be validated. And to help you again, learn those skills, because relationships require a whole lot of skills that we don’t learn. We don’t take classes in school around that. We should, right? Around the skills needed for healthy relationships. And so couples therapy is really about developing that tool chest of skills that many of us did not have the opportunity to get, going into our relationships. So as you said, just like with anything else in life, if you want to be successful at it, if you want to get better at it, you got to learn, you got to practice, you got to develop the skills. It’s the same for relationships. And so I think you made some really important points here that I hope that all of you listening, wherever you are in your relationship, will consider that, and think about whether the time is right now to get that outside perspective and support and skill building. I just wanted to touch on one more thing before we wrap up, and that is you mentioned doctors John and Julie Gottman earlier. People often struggle to find a therapist in general, but especially when we’re talking about couples therapy, there are really two main approaches that we want people to be looking for that have a good research basis, and you touched on both of them with emotion-focused, and then Gottman. So if people say, “Well, okay, I’m ready, I want to talk to my partner about this. I don’t know what to look for. How do I know if it’s going to be quality work that a therapist is going to do with us? Can you speak to that for just a minute?

Eli Weinstein

For sure. When it comes to looking for a couples therapist, I would first start with Psychology Today. It’s super easy, just to filter based on insurance, location, in person, not in person, whatever your preference is. There are two main specialties or licensures, or whatever certifications. There’s Gottman Institute, which is like 40 years of research, they have this really cool lab. You can sign up for a weekend of being studied in an apartment. Of course, I think it’s from 9am to 9pm that their cameras and videos are on. And I found that their perspective was very practical and they’re very clinical in their research as well. Just the years of experience that comes from a more connection-focused base foundation of trust and respect, and then the communication afterwards. Because if you have the best communication, you can say the we statements, but “I hate your stinking guts”, not helping. Sue Johnson’s EFT is really the emotional undertones that play into why we communicate, how we communicate, and why we feel and why we do certain things within a relationship, and get to that undertone base that really can relieve a lot of unsaid and undealt with things that we’ve been holding on to, connected to relationships. And if someone’s not certified in those things, that’s fine. Just make sure that you ask what their perspectives are on relationships, how they think they’re going to work with you, and if you are uncomfortable, and if someone really starts taking sides, that’s inappropriate, right? If someone starts telling you what to do with your marriage, inappropriate, right? Find someone who jives with you, that works with you. And the key is that you are both comfortable, because you both want to go. It’s not like “Well, we’re going to go see Eli”, and the husband is only excited and the wife isn’t, or the wife’s excited, or wife, wife or husband, husband, right? It doesn’t matter, the combination of the relationship, you got to be comfortable and jive with the person. If it is not working, have an honest conversation with yourself and the couples therapist and find someone that works for you because there’s so many people out there. Just be patient to find the right person, because it’s out there.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

I think that’s so important, whether we’re talking about individual therapy, therapy for your children, couples therapy, that fit is really important, and especially in couples therapy, to find somebody that you both feel confident about seeing, that you both feel comfortable with, it may take it may take a couple of tries. But I think that’s a really good point. Eli, there’s so many other things we could touch on with this, but I feel like we’ve given people some really great things to take away from this, you’ve given some really important concepts and tangible strategies. I want to make sure that people know where they can find out more about you, your podcast, the work you’re doing, where can they go to learn one?

Eli Weinstein

Sure. So I have a website, eliweinsteinlcsw.com. I used to say www. and realized, wow, I am from the 90s. And I have an Instagram, @Eli Weinstein_LCSW. My podcast is called The Dude Therapist, because I’m a dude who is a therapist. It is for everyone, anyone. And Nicole’s podcast is coming out in October, so super excited about that, so stay tuned for that. Please just message me, email me, call me on my work phone number, and see if I can help you. And if I can’t, I will do my best to find someone who can. And that’s all I can do for you. And other than that, I hope to hear from everyone.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Well, and I think I just want to put in a plug for your podcast: Those of you who have male partners, men in your life, who you feel like would maybe benefit from getting information that is sort of geared towards that standpoint, I think Eli’s podcast is a great, more approachable way to do that. So I would recommend that. Eli, thank you so much for all the important work that you are doing in the world, and for spending time with us today. I appreciate you being here. Thank you.

Eli Weinstein

Thank you for having me.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

And thanks as always, to all of you for being here and listening. We’ll catch you back here next time.