Surprising Ways To Support Your Children’s Oral Health

Episode Transcript

Dr. Nicole Beurkens: 

Hi everybody, welcome to the show, I am Dr. Nicole, and on today’s episode, we’re talking about oral health and the connection to gut health and brain function. We all know it’s important for our kids to take care of their teeth so they don’t get cavities, but taking care of our teeth, our gums and our mouth in general is really important for so many aspects of health for our kids and for us. And what many people don’t realize is that problems in the mouth can be very connected to brain function, behavior and all kinds of things going on with our kids. I know that for some of you , you have children where you really struggle to get them to brush their teeth or to engage in those kinds of routines. Some of the things that we’re going to talk about in this episode, I think will be really helpful to you in terms of thinking about what’s really important and necessary for oral care and how you might be able to support your child’s oral health without some of the things that maybe you’ve been trying to do up until now.

My guest today is Dr. Al Danenberg, a periodontist with extensive experience treating oral health in integrative and innovative ways. He goes by Dr. Al and he is a periodontist who was in private practice for 44 years. He incorporated ancestral nutrition and lifestyle with his leading-edge LASER protocol to treat periodontal disease. In 2018, he retired from active practice of treating individual patients, but still consults with people all over the world regarding nutrition, lifestyle, oral and overall health and the importance of a healthy gut and immune system. Dr. Al also talks about his unconventional cancer journey since he was diagnosed with incurable bone marrow cancer in September of 2018 and was given only 3-6 months to live. He is a certified functional medicine practitioner, and has earned many other certifications. He is also a published author, scientific advisor and has a wonderful blog with articles and information for patients and practitioners. Dr. Al is one of my favorite people to interview. I had the opportunity to talk with him in many different venues and it is such a thrill to have him on the show with us today. Dr. Al, welcome!

Dr. Al Danenberg:

Well, thank you! What a beautiful introduction! And obviously, I’m still alive, so something is going right for me and something is going right and not right for all of these conventional oncologists, what can I tell you?

Dr. Nicole Beurkens: 

That’s right. We’re so glad that not only are you still alive and beating this cancer, beating the prognosis, but that you’re able to be with us on these kinds of shows and still be doing all the researching and the speaking and all of the amazing things that you’re doing. That is such a gift to all of us. So grateful to have you here. I want to start out this conversation by really laying the foundation for people about why oral health and taking care of what’s going on in our mouth is so important for our overall health, because I think that’s a connection that a lot of people really don’t think about or understand. So give us the lay of the land there as a foundation. What’s the connection between those things?

Dr. Al Danenberg: 

Well, it’s a huge connection and it goes back and forth from the mouth to the gut to the mouth again. And when you really start in the mouth, you think that’s the beginning place, and that’s really the beginning place where the food gets into the gut. But that’s really not the beginning place of the disease. So let’s go with the mouth, but realize, and I’ll explain that in a moment, that’s not the starting place. So when you have something going on in the mouth that is not healthy, where there are unhealthy bacteria that are overgrowing the natural garden of bacteria, there may be potentially 700 different types of bacteria in the mouth. So we’ve got this beautiful garden of bacteria, most of which is extremely important. Some are potentially pathogenic, but if those pathogenic, those bad guys overgrow, they will cause tooth decay and gum disease, and when they do that, that infection can spread into the bloodstream.

It’s very easy for that spread to occur because under the gum tissue, there are many, many small blood vessels that pour into the bloodstream. So when there is bacterial infection or just inflammation, those elements get into the bloodstream and travel to every organ system that’s in the body, including the brain. In addition to that, those elements of infection and inflammation can get throughout the body by getting into the lymph that eventually drains into the bloodstream, and also it can get into the sheath that covers the nerve tissues, like the coating on an electrical wire. And that coating is like a slippery slope, and all these inflammatory and bacterial elements can travel throughout the body on nerve sheaths.
So it is a very serious area where the spread can cause all kinds of damage in the body. But that’s not where it starts. Now, unless there is, let’s say a tooth that breaks it’s irritating to the gum or bad dentistry that is irritating the mouth, or materials that are in certain dental fillings that are unhealthy, that can cause an irritation in the mouth all by itself, but the beginning of the infection in the mouth really starts in the gut. When the gut garden of bacteria change into an unhealthy balance of bacteria because of a bad diet, because of chemicals that are in food or dirty electromagnetic fields, poor sleep habits, emotional stress, overexercising, under-exercising — there are so many factors that can affect that garden of bacteria.
Once the garden of the bacteria in the gut becomes unhealthy, it affects the barrier in the gut which is only one cell layer thick, and then changes that barrier to become porous. Holes start to open in that barrier and junk that’s in the gut, center of the body, literally penetrates into the blood. And when it does that, all kinds of infection occurs. All kinds of inflammation that gets into other organ systems. And that’s what really starts changing the mouth, because when the immune system is affected because of this bad bacteria in the gut, it affects the health of the mouth bacteria and it makes those potentially pathogenic bacteria pathogenic. It’s a really vicious cycle but it really starts in the gut. You have to be aware of a healthy gut, as aware of the healthy mouth, which is a long discussion of that subject. 

Dr. Nicole Beurkens: 

But I think that that’s so important for people to understand that connection, because just like so many things historically in medicine or in health, we sort of have artificially siloed these different things. I talk about how we have long had this artificial differentiation between mental health and physical health, as if the brain isn’t connected to the body, right? And I think it’s the same thing for oral health. People think, “Oh, what goes on in the mouth with the teeth and the gums, that’s just in the mouth. How could that be connected to other things?” And what you just beautifully explained is that there is this interconnectedness. You can not have problems in one without issues in the other. We have to deal with it at a more systemic level. 

Dr. Al Danenberg: 

And what is so important with that statement is that you go to the dentists, and your child goes to the dentist, and the dental hygienist says you need to clean better, and they say you’re not brushing well, you’re not flossing well. Well, maybe that’s true, but maybe the child or the parent really is cleaning their mouth properly but they still have bleeding gums, they still have tooth decay. What is really the factor? The factor is it’s not just taking care of the mouth. You have to take care of the gut. So if the gut bacteria that you may not even be aware of, you know most gut problems, 80% of gut problems don’t create diarrhea or constipation or bloating, they aptly just get into the system circulation and that gets into all the organ systems. So if you have this gut problem and you don’t know it, then you don’t know how to to take care of it. So you’re trying to brush better and floss better and you still have bleeding in the gums or you still have tooth decay because it is a multi-factor problem and you need to treat the mouth, you need to clean your mouth probably, we can go into that, but you must have a healthy gut, and of course, you have to have a healthy diet. Certain foods are always, always going to create pathogenic or unhealthy types of bacteria growing in the gut. 

Dr. Nicole Beurkens: 

I’m really glad you raised that issue of going into the dentists’ and them saying, “Oh, you need to be cleaning better.” Because I do see parents who feel so frustrated by that, they’re like, “Look! I am doing all the things that our dental office is telling us. We are brushing, we are doing the fluoride rinses, we are flossing, and still my child is having these issues!” Or maybe they may notice they’re having these issues, and there really aren’t solutions that they’re given beyond that. They’re told “Well, just do a better job with it.” What you’re saying is that actually, there are things that go beyond brushing and flossing that we need to be thinking about. So let’s go into the nutrition piece of it for a few minutes here because I know that’s something that you and I are both passionate about, and really is so foundational if we’re thinking about how to support healthy teeth, healthy gums, healthy microbiome, nutrition is really a key component, isn’t it?

Dr. Al Danenberg: 

It is, but now I’m going to be very controversial, do you like that?

Dr. Nicole Beurkens: 

Yeah, go for it!

Dr. Al Danenberg: 

What I do and what I research, and again, I’m not going to go into this detail, but I know what is important. And what’s important is to create a strong, robust immune system. That’s what has helped me with my cancer, and I can tell you that’s going to help anybody and everybody with their mouth. So there are certain food products that we eat all the time. We eat it 3 times a day, for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and probably two snacks, which by the way, humans don’t need to eat more than one meal a day, and sometimes not even every day, and that’s another story —

Dr. Nicole Beurkens: 

For adults.

Dr. Al Danenberg:

For adults. Of course kids need the energy components, of course. But what’s very interesting is that certain foods always create a problem. Now they create different problems for different people, but they always create problems. For instance, the grains have elements called phytates that bind to minerals that create problems, suck up the minerals in the food and in the saliva the moment while you’re eating it and it just takes those minerals out to the other end of the body. It just is that way! And these grains actually create inflammation in the gut. It is the way it is. We have a DNA code. We have evolved, if you believe in evolution, which I do, we have evolved, for — the overall human species, two and a half million years. Modern man maybe 160,000 years. We have this DNA code that literally is our framework. 99.9% of all humans have the same code. What makes you you and me me is 0.1% of this DNA. So it’s very interesting, but the 99.9% specifically says certain things. It says you must drink water to survive or you’re going to die. You must breathe air to survive or you’re going to die. You must eat nutrient foods to survive or you’re going to die. 

On the other end of the spectrum of the DNA code or the DNA blueprint, it knows that it’s DNA structure can not make certain enzymes. Now, certain animals can make certain enzymes to digest certain food products, but our digestive system is not designed to digest certain food products, and grains are one of them. We don’t have the enzymes to literally break down all of these grains to their smallest components of amino acids. And those larger components called peptides sometimes irritate the gut lining. Research has shown every human being is irritated. The gut is irritated by grains. Some people more than others, but it is an irritant. You know, if you had a splinter in your finger and everything in your body was healthy but you had this splinter in your finger, the skin around the splinter is irritated and inflamed. And no matter what you do, it stays that way until you remove the splinter. And lo and behold, it’s like a miracle, all of a sudden, the skin heals.

So if you were not smart enough and you took that splinter and stabbed your finger in the same puncture wound once a week, that puncture wound never heals. So if you put an irritant in your gut, it is like a splinter in your finger. The beautiful thing about the gut lining is that it’s the most reparative tissue in the whole body. That means it replaces itself rapidly. As a matter of fact, the lining of the gut replaces itself every 5 days. It’s amazing! If you stopped all your bad habits, in 5-7 days you’ll have another gut lining. However, if you keep irritating it once a week, it never heals. Grains are so damaging to the gut, and if you stop grains and you were off grains for a week and you said, “Oh, I’m going to cheat once.” You’re just going to go back to ground zero. And the grains damage the gut, makes this gut bacteria unhealthy and then it affects the immune system and it affects the mouth bacteria. So grains are a problem.

Another huge problem food is processed sugars. We are not designed to eat processed sugars and because of that, it affects the gut, it affects the immune system. And when the bacteria in the mouth changes and the bad bacteria overgrow, these sugars feed these bad bacteria to grow even more, and that’s why we have tooth decay and that’s why we have gum disease. Another terrible food product are processed vegetables and seed oils. These are the oils that everybody is eating everyday: Canola oil, soybean oil, sunflower oil, corn oil. The list goes on and on, and these are very inflammatory omega-6 fatty acids, many of which are damaged in the production, the mechanical production of these oils, and it damages our microbiome, it damages our cell walls, it damages and confuses our fat cells. It does a lot of bad things. So these foods which are part of most people’s diets are damaging to the gut and are eventually damaging to the oral microbiome or the mouth bacteria, and they will cause and encourage tooth decay and gum disease. If we eliminated those foods, I would say that probably brushing and flossing is not so critical. Our primal ancestors that lived a long time, if we looked at the skeletal remains of these ancestors from 10-20 thousand years ago, they hardly had tooth decay, they hardly had bone disease from gum disease, yet they had signs of lots of dental plaque that hardened to form tartar calculus with no real damage. They didn’t have toothpaste, they didn’t have toothbrushes, they didn’t have a dental cave to go to to get their fluoride treatments, yet they didn’t have these diseases, and why was that? Because they didn’t have these unhealthy elements that we eat constantly. 

Dr. Nicole Beurkens: 

It’s such a great point and the diet that you’re really talking about there, looking at reducing or eliminating grains, getting rid of the processed sugars and those damaging processed oils, that really is the essence of a paleo type of diet – which I have seen in my practice that many of the kids and the families that have gone on a diet like that, whether it’s because their child is having significant mental health symptoms or significant health issues or whatever, one of the nice side effects of that is that the oral issues that they were having really do get better. Everything from — parents will say, “Gosh, you know you used to have this horrible bad breath and I don’t notice that anymore/ The teeth are clean. We went in for a cleaning and the hygienist was really surprised at how healthy everything looked” So it’s such a great thing to think about, that these kinds of changes that we can make nutritionally have such an impact on everybody system. They’re just like this never-ending list of things that improve and get stronger and healthier when we change the way that we’re eating. 

Dr. Al Danenberg: 

Without a doubt. And once you do that, then the techniques of cleaning the mouth become easier and not so significant, because dental plaque, and this is something that most people will have a little hard time getting to understand, dental plaque is healthy until it’s not. Let me explain this because I have an analogy or an example that makes sense. There is no part in the body where a hard structure pierces the skin and embeds itself in sterile bone except the tooth. So the tooth goes through the gum and it lodges itself to become stable in the jawbone. So this is literally a sliding ward for bacteria to get into areas of the body that no bacteria should be in. So the body has created all kinds of ways to prevent bacteria to get into the internal structures of the body through the mouth by initially creating this very healthy biofilm called dental plaque.

And it’s made of several hundred species of bacteria, and they work in conjunction with one another and they don three specific things: Number one, all these bacteria work in unison to produce a variety of types of hydrogen peroxides, which is very damaging and kills other potentially pathogenic bacteria in the mouth that want to get into this gum margin where the tooth meets the gum. So it kills it. It also is the gatekeeper for all these wonderful, luscious, biological available minerals that are in the saliva that literally get into the root and help remineralize that tooth surface to make it stay healthy, so it controls the amount of minerals that get into the root. The third thing that a healthy dental plaque will do is that it has chemical buffers so that it maintains an acid level that’s not too acid so that the root surface will not decay. So that dental biofilm that everybody thinks we need to remove is very healthy. If you remove it and prevent it from forming — it, unfortunately, forms every 12 hours or so, but you can actually take certain chemicals, rinse your mouth with chemicals, toothpaste with chemicals that destroy this biofilm, you have a void and a very susceptible area where the tooth penetrates the gum. Now there is stuff under the gum that protects the body, there’s a lot of immune cells, there are a variety of ways that we, the body protects itself from bacteria getting under the gum into the bone. But the most obvious protective barrier is this dental plaque. So you don’t want to remove dental plaque completely, but you want to remove unhealthy dental plaque that’s heavier build-up of the plaque that creates inflammation, and that’s all a result of bacteria in the gut and a bad immune system and bad food that feeds us bacteria. So there are certain ways to clean it off. 

Dr. Nicole Beurkens: 

Yeah, and I know that some people, their minds are blown, they’re like “Wait a second, I’ve been taught or told that plaque is the enemy. Isn’t that why I go into the dentist’s and they scape and they scrape and they scrape?” And what you just shared there is so important in terms of understanding how this system functions, that that plaque is important but that we need to make sure that it’s healthy plaque. 

Dr. Al Danenberg:

Yeah. So unfortunately, I do want to interject this. I don’t want to say bad things about my profession, but there are a lot of dentists that don’t believe what I say, and there are a lot of dental hygienists that don’t believe what I say. And they’ve not done any research, and they’ve not literally gotten out of their box from dental school and hygiene school from years ago, and that is that bacteria is bad, therefore we have to kill it, we have to remove all the dental plaque, we have to use antimicrobial mouthwashes and antimicrobial toothpaste to kill off this bacteria, and that is so far from the correct idea. We just want our bacteria to be balanced, we don’t want to destroy the bacteria. So you have to clean your mouth, of course, you have to brush it and floss it and use the little picks that go between the teeth and clean your tongue. I actually have a little paper that describes four methods to really have a healthy mouth. I’d be more than happy to share it with you and you can share it with all your listeners, obviously. It’s informational and it explains, it has some pictures on how to clean your mouth. So not only is it good for adults, it’s good for children, it’s good for adults that are trying to clean their children’s mouth. It is the perfect way to have a healthy mouth. 

Dr. Nicole Beurkens: 

Fantastic. And we will make sure to put that link with the show notes, so people can access that. Let’s talk through that a little bit, because I think a lot of parents have questions, especially now, hearing what you’re saying. What should we be doing to help manage oral health for our kids? What are the daily cleaning procedures? I mean I know, myself having four kids, I always was told “Make sure that you’re using these fluoride toothpastes, make sure that you’re brushing for two minutes, make sure that they’re flossing.” We’ve had different, as you mentioned, antimicrobial mouthwashes recommended, these kinds of things. So what really are the most important things that we should be doing? Because I know that these typical recommendations, maybe some of them really aren’t that necessary or beneficial, but also for parents you are really struggling and feeling really guilty and down on themselves for not being able to follow every single one of those recommendations with their child, whether it’s because their child has sensory aversions to strong-tasting toothpaste or those kinds of things. What should we be doing maybe at a bare minimum? And then what are some more optimal things we should be doing? 

Dr. Al Danenberg: 

So let’s talk first from what’s really critical. And what’s really critical is the diet. So no matter what you’re doing, and it is proven every time a person goes into the dentist, that doesn’t have a good diet, and they have bleeding gums and the hygienist says, “You’re not brushing and flossing.” And you know you’re brushing and flossing, but they say you’re not brushing and flossing. Well the reason is the bacteria in the gut is damaging the bacteria in the mouth and it’s creating your problem. So you have to have the right diet.

We can go into lots of diets and we can talk about that on another day, but let’s be sure that you’re eliminating the irritants to the gut. The other thing that’s important and it’s really not discussed very much is what water are you drinking? Most of our minerals are gotten from real, healthy spring water. And sadly enough, we’re drinking tap water that doesn’t have the minerals, or maybe there are some minerals and a lot of chemicals, then we’re thinking “I’m going to be smart, I’m going to use filtered water.” So they either buy filtered water or they have sophisticated water filters or they create a phenomenal, expensive filtering system for the entire house and it literally filters everything out and now you have dead water. I mean it’s pure, but it doesn’t have any of the minerals in it. And then maybe you’re thinking, I’m just going to add drops of this mineral, electrolyte supplement or that —” Well, these are all man-made chemicals and you’re still not getting all the trace minerals that you really need. So I think it’s important to be aware that spring water, or basically mineral water is the healthy water to drink. I drink only mineral water. I only cook with mineral water. I’m not using any filtered water anymore, although I used to. Now, I’m more aware to get my minerals.

Now there are three waters that I like that I can get in my grocery store easily. Evian, it’s a water from France. Fiji, it’s a great water, great-tasting water, and I think kids will love it because I love it, and I’m kind of picky with the water that I drink, and that’s good with minerals. And the one that has the most minerals that is easily available in my grocery stores is Gerolsteiner, which comes from Germany. Now, it is a bubbly — I don’t like carbonated water, so you can let it sit and get the carbonation out or you can boil it and the carbonation goes out, and drink it. But it has the highest mineral contents of all water that I’ve ever found. And you should be seasoning with Himalayan salt and not table salt because Himalayan salt has 84 trace minerals. You’re going to get all these minerals that you need. And why is it important? These minerals are critical for all kinds of metabolic function, but also remineralizing the tooth. And this is what gets into your blood system, gets into your saliva, and that’s what pours through your mouth, to bathe this wonderful healthy dental plaque. So I think it’s important, the diet is important and drinking mineral water is important. 

Now, how do we clean the mouth? I’ve got to tell you, all these toothpastes on the market are making a lot of money for the companies that are making it, but you don’t need a toothpaste, you need a soft-bristle nylon toothbrush. I love electric toothbrushes because I’m lazy. If you’re going to brush your kids mouth, electric toothbrushes are great, and some of the companies that do that are, the biggest that I like, are Oral-B/Braun is a brush that is a roundhead that oscillates back and forth. There are several other toothbrush companies that do a phenomenal job, but these bristles are very soft and they all make smaller heads for children. So I like those electric toothbrushes. All you have to do is dip it in water. You could dip it in some spring water, mineral water and brush your child’s teeth. It does all the work for you. All you have to do is put the bristles where the tooth meets the gum and it just brushes it on the outside and the inside. You have to make sure you brush the cheek surface of the teeth and the tongue surface of the tooth where the tooth meets the gum. You want to clean between the teeth, and the best way to clean between the teeth is a little device that is made by a company called Tepe.

Tepe Easy Pick, but anyhow, it is made with silicon. Very soft and resilient. So if you bend it, it springs back to its natural shape. It looks like a toothpick, and you clean it — like you would think about putting a toothpick between the teeth, you clean it where the silicon bristles rub where the gum and the tooth meet. It will pull off the unhealthy dental plaque. It doesn’t remove the very, very tenacious film of the dental plaque, just the soft excess dental plaque. Now if the gum tissue bleeds, it is a perfect sign to you that there is infection in the gum.

Be concerned, but be aware that if you start cleaning properly and changing the diet and maybe improving the gut microbiome, that bleeding will go away. If it is only early surface bleeding called gingivitis, changing the diet will cure gingivitis. Unfortunately, gingivitis can progress into a very serious, deeper infection called periodontitis, which actually changes the bacteria structure and starts to literally eat away the jawbone. That’s a much more involved disease. Just changing the diet will not stop that disease. You have to change the diet, you have to fix the gut, but you also have to repair the damage from periodontal disease or periodontitis. But if you just have gum bleeding and it’s not deep under the gum and the jawbone, just correcting the diet will change gingivitis to become healthy. The other thing you want to do is clean the top of the tongue, and you can do that with an inverted spoon. 

Dr. Nicole Beurkens: 

Yeah, talk about that, because I think that’s a really interesting thing and actually, kids find this kind of cool. 

Dr. Al Danenberg:

Yeah. So you can buy gadgets called tongue scrapers, you can do that if you want. But the simplest, easiest thing — and I think it’s even better than the tongue scrapers is take a spoon, invert it, and then put it as far back on the top of the tongue as you can go, just before you want to gag, and then press it on the surface of the tongue and scrape or pull it forward. And when you do that, you’ll see that there’s somewhat of a milky fluid that forms in the bowl of the spoon. That milky fluid is a combination of a lot of gram-negative bacteria, some of which are unhealthy, some of which are healthy, but you’re just going to remove the excess, and a lot of decaying food particles. If you want to get gross, you can take that fluid and put it on the top of your hand and let it dry and smell it and that’s what your bad breath smells like, because 80% of bad breath in the mouth comes from the top of your tongue. 

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:

Yup, and kids — I’ve done that with several kids and they think that that is very fun, especially older elementary and middle school boys. 

Dr. Al Danenberg:

Yup. Right, I get it. 

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:

But I think what you talked about with really what is beneficial for cleaning the mouth is so relieving to parents, especially all of you out there who are raising kids who have maybe a lot of texture and taste sensitivities, who a lot of the issue with what you’ve been trying to do with oral care centers around really strong-tasting and gritty-textured toothpastes and mouthwashes and things like that. Kids are going to be resistive to that if they have a sensory system that’s really easily overwhelmed.

So while there are milder-tasting toothpaste and things that we can use, I think to really key in here to what Al is saying, that the key is using a soft-bristle toothbrush, either manual or electrifying and making sure that you’re getting in there and brushing and using water that, that that really does the job. And I am a fan, ever since you talked to me about those Tepes, those little picks — flossing is so challenging for kids, I mean for a lot of adults, right? It’s challenging to get in there, and those little Tepe picks are so much easier for kids and teens to use and they can get in there, it doesn’t hurt and it’s much easier even from a fine motor standpoint for them to manage than trying to floss. So I really just want to encourage people to look at that option.

Dr. Al Danenberg:

The main benefit, and really, the only benefits of flossing is to remove fibrous food particles that are stuck between the contacts of the teeth. Actually, flossing is very damaging to the mouth because most people, even me, when I didn’t realize what I was doing — certainly after dental school, but because dental school doesn’t teach anything like this, but people will floss and think that the sawing movement is healthy and they literally are told to go under the gum — unfortunately hygienists will tell you to do that, and when you put it under the gum and you saw, you literally cut a groove in the gum that you don’t even realize hurts initially, and then it does hurt because it’s starting to heal, but it heals like a groove, and that groove is literally a repository for extra bad bacteria and food particles, and even if it gets worse, it can cause inflammation and gum recession.

It’s really not a smart thing to do. So flossing is okay if you’re trying to get food particles that are stuck between the contacts of the teeth, but these little Tepe brushes like you’re explaining and I explained, are the perfect method. And really, the perfect way for you to identify if there’s active gum disease because that will stimulate bleeding when there is gingivitis. And unfortunately, our population has a huge prevalence of gingivitis. There was one study that showed — It’s an amazing statistic, but there was one study that showed that the US population, the prevalence of gingivitis, early gum inflammation is 93%. Wow! That is epidemic proportions.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:

Well, and when you go to the dentist, they say, “Oh, well you have a little bleeding” and I always just blew it off until I first heard you speak, and you’re like, “A little bleeding? If it’s bleeding, that’s a problem.” 

Dr. Al Danenberg:

Exactly. The gums never should bleed, just like if you were to scrub your nails with a nail scrubber, you would never expect bleeding under the cuticle. When a woman is putting on her makeup, a guy is shaving, they look in the mirror, and all of a sudden you see a drop of blood come out of your ear, you would be shocked, you would be concerned. But no one is concerned when they brush or floss and there is a little pink on the brush or a little pink in the sink when you spit out because again, hygienists say, “It’s just a little bit.” There is no such thing as a little bit, unless they cut your gum doing what they did, it should never, ever bleed. 

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:

Yeah. And I think that it’s so helpful even for us as adults to understand that. I want to ask a question as we get ready to wrap up here, something else that comes up often for parents with their children is around the use of these really heavy-duty mouthwashes. I feel like it’s often a compensation that professionals are trying to give. Like, “Oh well, you’re prone to these cavities, you have these bleeding gums”, instead of talking about the things like cutting down on the sugars and the things that we’re talking about here, they’re told, “Well, we need to do these fluoride treatments. Every time you come in you need to be using these heavy-duty antibacterial mouthwashes.” I’ve had even young kids come in. Parents will say, “I feel like a bad parent, I’m supposed to be having my kid use this mouthwash once or twice a day and I can’t get them to do it.” I have some concerns about constantly using antimicrobial products like that in the mouth for kids. I’m wondering what your stance is. Maybe I’m off-base with that. 

Dr. Al Danenberg:

You are absolutely on-base. Antimicrobial mouthwashes are totally contra-indicated on a daily basis. Any mouthwash is contra-indicated on a daily basis. Any toothpastes that have antimicrobial elements or binders like activated charcoal or bentonite clay are not necessary. You do not need fluoride. Fluoride is just a barrier. It will protect you from decay because you have gut dysbiosis, you have a bad diet, you’re not cleaning your mouth well. You’re just painting a surface that is a little more impervious, but that’s not a healthy thing because fluoride is a neurotoxin, there are studies that show babies in utero, fetuses and young children have a decrease in IQ because of fluoride. It will replace the iodine in thyroid hormone — come on!

This is not a good element that you need. If you want to prevent tooth decay, stop eating sugar and get your guy healthy and maybe clean your mouth like we just described. That’s all you need to do. If you wanted to rinse your mouth because you wanted to have a fresher flavor, just rinse your mouth with some mineral water or take some mint leaves and kind of chalk them up and swish it and you’ll get this mint taste, if you want to do that.

I’m reluctant to use a lot of essential oils because they’re very concentrated, and essential are indiscriminate antimicrobial agents that are going to kill good stuff as well as bad stuff. You don’t want to kill this bacteria. You want to have them go into a state of normal balance. And if you’re only concerned about odor. Again, like you said, eat a healthier diet, the gut will get healthier, clean your tongue with an inverted spoon like you just described. 80% of the bacteria that are going to cause an odor are going to be removed, and you’re going to do quite well. 

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:

Yeah. I thought of one other thing as you were talking that I want to make sure to touch on before we finish up here, and that is — you know, you’ve drawn the connection over the course of this conversation between the gut microbiome and the oral microbiome, how important that is. What do you feel is the role of probiotic foods, probiotic supplement formulas, if any, in helping kids and adults with this issue?

Dr. Al Danenberg:

Well, some of the research on spore-based probiotics is very exciting. Much of the research on regular probiotics is exciting to the extent that probiotics are healthy, living bacteria that produce a host of chemicals called metabolites that are extremely beneficial to the gut. Well, interestingly, most of the probiotics that you can purchase are species of bacteria like — help me out here: Lactobacilli and Bifidobacteria that are great in producing all these biologically active chemicals called metabolites and it gets into the gut, but they literally are destroyed in the stomach acid. Our human acid is a protective barrier. It’s one of the unique parts of being a human, and it has a pH of 1-1.3, kills all this bacteria. But the metabolites get through. So maybe these probiotics are good 50% of the time. Unfortunately, a lot of people that promote these probiotics will say these probiotics are important because they get into the gut, they can get into the intestines and reproduce. Well, they can’t because they’re dead. But their metabolites do wonderful things.

Spore-based probiotics are a little different. They have an encapsulation, which is natural, they live in the dirt. They’re not thriving because they are dormant in the dirt. Rich, wonderful, organic dirt: Animals defecate, spores are there and then animals eat the product, the food, the fruits and vegetables, it gets into their system and it gets into our system, and these spores are unique because they are resistant to the stomach acid. And actually, the stomach acid, as it gets into the small intestines, kind of stimulates these spores to start to reproduce and actually germinate. So spore-based probiotics, these bacillus spores actually reproduce in the gut, creating their own natural bacterial growth. And they produce their own metabolites, but they support your own friendly bacteria to grow in numbers and quantity and quality, which is unique because there is something that’s called alpha-diversity. It is a term that’s used in how diverse, meaning how many different species of bacteria you have in your gut, and how many numbers of each of these species are in your gut.

And the reason it’s important is that all the studies that have been done with primal societies, for example, show that their microbiome and their gut have many, many species and many numbers of species. In other words, they have a very robust, large number of alpha-diversity of their gut microbiome. So spore-based probiotics increase your alpha diversity. And why is that important? Because it protects you from infection. It supports your immune system. It does everything your gut is supposed to do like creating many, many species that outnumber potentially pathogenic species. It keeps you pretty healthy. So these spore-based probiotics help with your gut.

Now there is some interesting information. It’s not actually proven at this point, but it is anecdotal and I use it and I recommend this concept. There are some spore-based probiotics, Microbiome Labs makes a nice spore-based probiotic called MegaSporeBiotic. There is some research that suggests the spores attach to biofilm. Well, dental place is a biofilm. So what I recommend is that you take the normal dose of two capsules a day, I recommend that you open the capsules, put it in a little cup and put a little bit of mineral water in, maybe a teaspoon or two, and swish it around so that — it won’t dissolve completely but it goes into solution a little bit, and then put it in your mouth and swish and gargle with this spore-based probiotic. So it’s going to get attached to the biofilm. It may — I don’t know that it’s true yet, but it may enhance the quality of the bacteria in the dental plaque. And then you’re going to swallow it and it’s going to get into your gut, and the fact that it doesn’t have a capsule any longer, it gets into your gut faster because the capsule doesn’t have to dissolve. And in the cup where you put the spores, make sure you put a little bit more water after you’ve taken the first dose because you’re going to have little particles of the spores remaining. You just want to get all those spores into your mouth. 

So I believe, and that is part of my regimen for cleaning your mouth using the spore-based probiotics, for the gut as well as the mouth. 

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:

Yeah, a fabulous product for so many reasons and I’ve been doing it since you taught me about the swishing with, I’ve had many patients do that. One of the things that I think is helpful for parents and for kids to know is it doesn’t have a taste to it. There is no strong taste. Sometimes parents will be like, “I don’t know about opening the capsule.” If anything, it’s maybe a little bit sweet. But it really doesn’t have any kind of a strong flavor that kids are going to be averse to. So that’s an easy way, and a lot of parents are giving kids probiotics anyway, this is a great way to double up the benefit of that, the swishing and getting the direct potential oral benefits of that, and then the swallowing it so they get it internally. It’s a great 2 for 1 in my opinion. 

Dr. Al Danenberg:

I agree, and as I said, that’s not really been proven that it is going to enhance the dental plaque, but from a practical standpoint from what I understand about the biology of the system, it seems like it would be enhancing it. Certainly, it wouldn’t cause any harm. So I think that that’s a great idea. And gargling it, I’ve noticed that if you have maybe a sore throat or something that’s going on, you’re actually getting that coating around your throat. I think that’s a benefit. 

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:

That’s great. Dr. Al, you and I could talk for hours about these things. I always learn so much when I have the opportunity to spend time with you. I do want to, as we wrap up here, make sure that people know where they can find more information. You have so many great articles and resources available. Where is the best place for them to go?

Dr. Al Danenberg:

Sure, my website is drdanenberg.com. If you want to get in touch with me, I answer all my emails. So if you go to the contact tab on the navigation part, just write your message and it comes directly to me. I will be able to answer that. There are maybe 500 or so blogs that I’ve written. I write, probably every week. So there’s lots and lots of information on many, many subjects that you might find interesting. You can just put a topic that you’re interested in on the search window and click on it and it will probably pop up all the articles I’ve ever written about it. 

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:

Fantastic. I highly recommend that people go there, and I know that you have a couple of books as well? Are those available on the website? On Amazon? Where should people go?

Dr. Al Danenberg:

Yeah, so one book that I’ve written — these are two mini eBooks which I published maybe two or three months ago. One is called The Better Belly Blueprint, it’s my take on an animal-based diet. Not 100%, although that is a good diet, but animal-based diet, 70% animal-based, 30% plants that are low in anti-nutrients called phytates, oxalates, and lectins. And then the other is a more involved book called Is Your Gut Killing You? It really goes into the details of food and a variety of factors that influence our gut microbiome, how it affects the oral cavity, the vicious cycle between the oral cavity and the gut microbiome, and other organ systems. It has about 295 peer-reviewed articles that support my thesis. 

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:

Great. So great options for people who want to go more in-depth with the kids of things that we talked about today. Dr. Al, thank you so much for taking the time to be here with us and sharing your knowledge and experience, we really appreciate it. 

Dr. Al Danenberg:

Thanks for the opportunity. 

Dr. Nicole Beurkens:

And thanks to all of you for listening, we’ll see you back here next week for our next episode of The Better Behavior Show.