Teen Whisperer: Tips for Communicating & Parenting Teens

Episode Transcript

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Hi everyone, welcome to the show. I’m Dr. Nicole, and today we’re talking all about teenagers. I get tons of questions and concerns from all of you about kids in this age range, sort of that tween through teen, and even early young adult years. There are so many parts of this developmental phase that can feel tricky to us and to our kids. It can be tough to know when to intervene and support, when to back off. And some days it can feel like we’re wrong no matter what we do. We’re going to explore what makes kids at this age tick, the ways we might be misunderstanding what’s happening for them even when we have the best intentions, how we can best connect and communicate with them and lots more. Teen whisperer Kirsten Cobabe is on the show today to guide us through all of this. Let me tell you a bit about her.

Kirsten is a social worker therapist turned coach who supports parents to navigate the waves of adolescence, while learning how to talk with teens by becoming authentically curious and truly present. As an advocate for families for two decades, she helps parents and teens transform their most important relationships from the inside out. She engages families in fostering rapport, cultivating conscious connections, reframing stories and restoring harmony in the home, and believes through raising our consciousness, we can raise the next generation. I love that. Kirsten, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here.

Kirsten Cobabe

Thanks for having me. Dr. Nicole, it’s so good to see you again.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yes. We had a great conversation for your Instagram followers several weeks ago, and I really wanted to have you on the show because I think that teens are so misunderstood in so many ways, and this is not a new thing. Adults, kids, we all just find this phase tricky. And there’s not a lot of people who specialize in really understanding and working with this age group. So that’s why I thought: Got to have you on, let’s tackle some of these topics. Before we dive into all that, I’d love for you to just share your story around how you became interested in working with teenagers, because, as I said, there’s not a lot of people in general, and specifically even within the field of therapy, that really get this age group and really enjoy working with them. So I’m just curious, what led you to this?

Kirsten Cobabe

Yeah, that speaks to part of my experience. When I was a therapist, there were teenagers coming into my office and repeatedly coming in every week and wanting to be there. And so this was really rare for the reasons you just said, there’s not a lot of people that enjoy being in the presence of this age group or understand it. And so it was, hopefully, kind of a safe haven for some of these young people that needed to be heard and just be themselves. And so my journey really started probably in my teen years, and what I was lacking and what I received and what really supported me. And so I was fortunate enough to have some amazing mentors, and some people that just really saw me as a person. And then I actually started mentoring teens when I was 19, and their parents, so I’ve been kind of doing this for a while and just being there, being there, being present and with people in that part of life. Because again, there’s not a lot of support for that these days. I think there used to be, a long, long time ago when we had more communal living, and the “it takes a village” concept. And I think maybe we’re coming back to some of that. So yeah, some of that came from my voids and my values as a young person myself. And then I really found that this was who was coming to see me when I was working in private practice, over and over again, that was really special. And that’s kind of when that teen whisperer came about, and it is such a joy and a pleasure and an honor.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

It’s awesome. And I think as therapists, or really any type of professional, when you when you notice patterns of certain age groups are people with certain issues coming, it’s like, oh, this is obviously something that I’m resonating with people around, and for teens to be able to feel safe with you, to want to go to therapy and to be there every week really says something. So that’s awesome. Let’s start this conversation about teens with what makes this developmental phase of life so tricky because teens are different than younger kids, yet they’re not adults, I always find it fascinating how in the fields of mental health and medicine, adolescence gets thrown in with adults, like you’ll see that happen for board certifications and things, it’s like “Adolescents and adult medicine specialist”, or therapists, many therapists will put on their bios or whatever “I work with teens and adults”, as if there’s kids and then everything else is adults. And yet, that kind of baffles me because teens are their own thing. Teens are not adults, they’re also not little kids. So let’s talk about, from your perspective, what makes this developmental phase so unique and also tricky?

Kirsten Cobabe

I think you really just spoke it, because we often see, if you’re a parent or a caregiver or teacher, anyone in that’s connected to a teen right now, you see some days they are more childlike, having some sort of tantrums, meltdowns, rough days, very dysregulated. And then other times, they are very mature, and wise, and have these amazing ideas and plans. And so there’s this back and forth sort of experience. And so if we’re not prepared for the wobble, the waves, then it can throw us off. And so I think that what you just said speaks to really where teens are at. They’re learning new skills on their way to young adulthood, yet all they have, same with adults, to lean back on during hard times, is what we know. And often, that’s what we did when we were four or seven.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah. And from the brain development perspective, I think what you’re hitting on is something really important there. It is this transition phase, even in the brain, of developing more mature, sophisticated connections in the brain, to be able to regulate more effectively, to be able to be more, “mature”, to think about things in more sophisticated ways. But that’s a totally linear process, and that takes this entire phase, right? And so I think that gets tricky, too, because as you said, there’s what can feel like these ups and downs of like, oh, my gosh, one minute my kid wants to be curled up next to me, and wants mom and is behaving more like a younger child, and the next minute, they’re doing this amazing thing, wow, like that’s really on the ball and mature. So it’s one of the things that’s tricky about that for us as parents or adults, that we expect them to always be in that more mature category, and aren’t leaving space for the full range of what’s going on?

Kirsten Cobabe

Sure, I’ve definitely experienced that in conversation in the families I’ve worked with. It’s like “Well yesterday, it was like this, they have this really great way and maturity here, how come it’s not everywhere all the time?” Because our brain loves to do that, it loves to have these linear ways of thinking. If it likes it easy and organized and mature, then “I want it that way all the time.” And so some of it’s a perspective, I mean, obviously an informational situation, the more we know about this stage, the more we understand this is what it’s about. It is supposed to look like this. And then if we can even shift our perspective and our expectations, of course some days are going to be really messy. There’s a season. I mean, no matter if you’re a teen or not, we go through seasons, but certainly the teen years is a season on its own. In addition to that, we’re not really honoring that season, societally and culturally these days. We’re saying “Get up at 6AM”, doesn’t make any sense for a teen or tween, and we’re saying “Sit down all day and learn these four things for so many years”, when they’re saying, “But I really like this/I have a question about this/what the hell’s going on with this?”, wanting to talk about the meaning of life and these bigger issues and these passions and these problems, and so we’re almost just missing the boat. And so those hard days, and we can talk about school more, of course, however, those hard days where your teen might be really having not their best day, they’re not the most mature, they’re really childlike, those are still really special moments where as adults, we can say, “This is one of those days.” That’s the hardest part, instead of going, “You should know better. You should be your best”, when it’s just not that way.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

And I think as frustrating or dysregulating as this can feel for us as adults, it really feels that way for the kids themselves too. I think back to even my own adolescent years and certainly my own personal children, and the many, many teens that I’ve worked with over the years, they may not be out there admitting it, but it feels dysregulating to them too. It’s hard to not know from one minute or day to the next what to expect from yourself or how you’re going to be feeling or how you’re going to be able to handle things. And so that’s tricky for them too.

Kirsten Cobabe

Yeah, absolutely. And then on top of that, “My parent might be disappointed if I’m not…”, whatever it is, whatever the expectation is, or if they’re concerned that the parent isn’t stable within that, and that’s okay, we’re all human, we’re going to have our moments. And that’s why sometimes they talk about yes, being the steady in the storm, however, also authentic, because teens have space for. That they actually want their parents to be real with them, to be like, “Oh, this is a rough one” instead of pretending they’re okay. And then it’s like, there’s this fakeness happening, and then the disconnect gets bigger. They really need that realness from us. And a lot of my generation, our generation, and previous generations were sort of told to not be our authentic selves in many ways. And so part of this, I wonder, is, is this generation saying “Enough with that, this is not sustainable”?

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And thinking of one of the unique pieces of this phase, I think of these years as this transition phase between being totally dependent on other people as a child, and being independent as an adult. And that can be tricky in these years too, right? This sort of, “I want to be able to do it all myself and be independent and do all of this” yet, on the other hand, they know “I can’t, and I need help”, and the tension and the frustration for them, and then us, I think that’s a piece of it too, this sort of transition and struggle for independence.

Kirsten Cobabe

Yeah so it’s like this interdependence middle road, which hopefully, we can all continue to get back to and grow together, because we do need each other, whether we’re teens or not, we do need support, we do need guidance, and teenagers certainly do. And so not to be confused with lectures and criticism, but certainly, yeah, there’s space for that. And they are requesting that, even in the rough days or the “bad behavior”, it’s like, “I need help here. And I don’t have the words to ask for that. Or I don’t know if it’s okay to ask for that.” And so, the little things that happen throughout the day are some of the ways we can remind the teens in our life that we can be there in those tough moments, we’re not going to totally lose it every time, because that will push a teen away, that’ll make a teen go, “I gotta look somewhere else for support, this is like a volcano, and that’s too much because I’m already unpredictable myself.”

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah. And that “I’m going to look for the support that I’m needing somewhere else”, can lead down a path of trouble for a lot of kids, depending on where they’re looking, right?

Kirsten Cobabe

Exactly. And I mentioned sometimes in the work, that we want teens to know they belong so they have to look for places where they belong because that can go awry. And then also, as the parent or caregiver, you don’t actually have a whole lot of influence or control at that stage around who or where that is coming from. And so this is really about: Want more influence? Connect during the conflict and be there in those moments that are rough instead of sending it away or shutting it down. I mean, of course, the not tricky moments too, but that’s just easier.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah, absolutely. I want us to get into some of the specific strategies around that. But I’d like for you to just comment on what you’re seeing currently as some of the biggest issues or challenges that teens are facing. What are you noticing, what are you hearing from the kids themselves, maybe from parents or educators or whatever. What are the biggest issues teens are facing today? Because I think there are some things that just are present throughout time that are issues for teens, but I think we’ve got some unique things happening at this point in time in the world, and so I’m curious what you’re hearing and seeing around that.

Kirsten Cobabe

The biggest and loudest for me that I’m seeing is this lack of motivation, or uninspired or just like, doesn’t want to do anything. And this feels like a big one. Along with lots of worry, that’s another one. So those two things can live together sometimes also and often do. So when I hear that and I learn more about what’s happening, and I’m listening to the teens in my life and their parents. To me, yes, lack of motivation, I hear that. And that’s the result. And I’m always like, what’s the root? What’s missing? How come? Because children are not wired to not want to do anything. Children are playful when they’re younger, they’re still playful when they’re older, they’re creative, open minded, trailblazing at times, and have energy. And so what’s going on here? And to me, what I see and what I feel like it is, is either lack of connection to where they spend most of their time and who they spend most of their time with, so school, being just not inspiring, not connected, not relevant, not fulfilling their developmental needs and maybe that spark that’s inside them, because everyone’s here to bring themselves. And so if we’re saying, “No, don’t” and “Shush and sit still”, and all this, then that’s what we’re missing, we’re actually missing all these gifts and all these just authentic personalities in people. And so if we think about that, if we pan out and go, “Wait, if I spent all my time, like I have to ask to go to the bathroom, I don’t really feel seen or heard by my teachers, I don’t even have real friends.” All this stuff that can be happening, then where would the motivation be? We are just so tired and toast by the end of that day, every day. Oh, and it’s not over, by the way, you have four hours of homework. Oh, and it’s not over on the weekend either now, because now we have digital homework and digital due by Sunday night at midnight stuff. Oh my gosh, this is too much, and then it only seems natural to respond with “I can’t”, unless you’re very type A and love school, and we need those people too.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

And that also can become a different problem of doing too much and pushing too hard and feeling like you’re not okay if you’re not perfect at all of it. I mean, there’s kids that fall all along the different ends of that spectrum. And I think this piece around the academic expectations or just the school pieces become huge for kids at this age. I see, along the lines of what you’re talking about, the lack of motivation and all of that, part of that, to me, has come along with the push that we’ve made over the last 30 years, towards “Every kid needs to do four-year college. The only acceptable path in life is to graduate from high school and go on to college”, we’ve taken so many of the trades out of our school programs, we’ve not helped kids explore the full range of options. And even more than that, we have, whether intentionally or unintentionally, created a culture where the message is “If you don’t go on to do four-year college and then get a good job or a high paying career after that, you’re not successful. You’re not enough.” I think I’ve watched that shift over the course of from when I was in high school until now, and I think it’s having really devastating consequences for kids in this developmental phase.

Kirsten Cobabe

Totally, totally, I’m so with you there, that there’s this “lesser than” version, like, “I’m not gonna have a good life.” And we can pop ourselves out of this bubble, because it’s popping every day, and we’re seeing more and more, whether it’s student loan debt or the inflation, how it’s not even actually matching up anymore, this idea. There are lawyers now that cannot do their lawyer job and they’re working at Starbucks with these massive student loan debts, and it’s not that you shouldn’t go to school because of that, either. It’s not one way or the other. It’s just: Can we open ourselves up to the reality that things have changed quite a bit? And also, we need trades, we need artists, we need all the people, and that’s why going back to our authentic selves and our gifts is so important. And if we kind of shut that down for so long, we can’t be surprised when young people go, “I don’t even know, I don’t even know what I want to study”, if they’re going to college, or what they want to do if they’re not going to college.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Or “I’m not motivated”, to go back to what’s the root of the “I’m not motivated”? Well, are you giving me meaningful things to think about and do that are aligned with who I am, what I’m good at, what my passions are? I just think it’s one of the things that we have gone in such the wrong direction with, and I think that’s part of what’s at the root of why we even pre COVID have been seeing skyrocketing numbers of teens, especially, reporting symptoms of significant anxiety, depression, even suicidality, eating disorders, all of these things. Again, what’s at the root of that? Well, these kids, are we giving them the opportunity to have experiences and lives that are aligned with their developmental stage, aligned with who they are, aligned with where they want to go in life? I think we’re really missing the mark for a lot of kids.

Kirsten Cobabe

Yeah, we’re missing the mark in that way. And then also we’re seeing less and less time moving, less and less time outside. And by moving, I mean movement. These things are core for humans, being creative, being outside in nature, moving our bodies and being connected with other people, not just limited to a classroom and four walls. And then I recently shared something about maybe, basically, kids wouldn’t have to be so loud or young people wouldn’t have to be so loud if we listened now, earlier. The little things that come up. And that’s why I say when your kids say “I hate school”, go, “Oh, what’s the worst part? What happened?”, instead of “Well, you can’t, you just have to go, and your teacher…” all the fixings and all the other perspectives. It’s not helpful, because actually, we’re missing that moment of connection. And we also might be missing that moment where we find out they do need some help with something.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah, I think there’s a lot of misunderstanding or not really tuning in, because it seems to me that we, already starting in the ninth grade, especially, get so focused on turning them into adults: You have to suck it up, you have to do things you don’t want to do, you have to learn how to not only go to school all day, but then slog away at homework and the nights and end of the week, because guess what? That’s what adulthood is going to be.” I mean, it’s this weird thing, but we do try to turn them into what “You got to, you just have to be able to do this stuff.” And we miss all of the important pieces of hearing where they’re actually out and what they actually need. And also, if that’s what adult life is like, no wonder we’ve got some of these teenagers saying, “Well, I don’t want that, I rebel against that. I’m not turning into that.” What are we modeling or what are we communicating to them is what adult life is? It sounds terrible. I’ve had teens in my office and young adults push back on it, and in some ways continue to act at a younger developmental stage, because they’re like, “If that’s what adulthood is, I want no part of that.”

Kirsten Cobabe

Exactly. Exactly. That is another end result, potentially, of when we miss the moment, or when we don’t listen, when we don’t join them right here, right now. They’re not 30 years old. They’re 15, 16, they’re 14. They are still figuring out and they need us to not only be living whatever life we want to be living, to model this, but also showing up, being able to show up for them right here, right now where they are. Because yeah, talk about lack of motivation. “What would I be getting A’s for? For your life? For this, what are you saying? No, no, thank you. Yeah, I’ll do anything else including stay a child.”

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

That’s right. Yeah, totally. You mentioned anxiety too, increased anxiety is something that you’re seeing as a pressing issue. What are some of the anxieties that you’re seeing are really on the minds of these young people?

Kirsten Cobabe

The more we step away from nature, good sleep, meaningful connection and purpose, the soul, our soul, us, our being is going to scream for help. That’s how I see it. It’s just like, of course, and also, if you think about the collective right now, how things are just heightened and kind of fraying, we’re standing on unsolid ground in some ways. They can feel this. It’s about talking about this, being present with each other, and creating joy and having fun when we can because this is massively important for humans. If it’s all going to become heavy and crunchy and analyze the end stressful, we can’t live in that pressure cooker. That is not balance, that does not work for anybody.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Think you make a good point that all kids, and I think in some ways, teens can be hypersensitive to this too, the amount of anxiety we bring into the mix. And let’s face it, there’s just a lot more anxiety in the world and in adults in general, and so it makes sense that that’s seeping into our teens as well. I think that’s really unsettling for kids to know that “Mom and dad, or my teachers, the adults around me are so anxious about these things”, that’s really unsettling and anxiety provoking for them.

Kirsten Cobabe

Yeah, yeah, we are really missing the “It takes a village”, connected to routines, being in nature, learning from nature, watching the cycles and the seasons. Because all of that brings this level of trust, even when shit hits the fan, to work together, where the storylines explain what’s happening, or these tails, or nature or the seasons, like all of this feels like we’re so far away from that way of being humans together, that we’re now like, what do I even have to hold on to?

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah. And I wonder, too, and I’m curious what you see around this, I think the increase of technology, the constantness of connectivity on the internet, social media, in particular, I think that’s really ramped up anxiety and created specific challenges for our teens, especially. I’m curious, your thoughts on that?

Kirsten Cobabe

Yeah. And I’m someone that looks at it, and I think we talked about this before, but technology is a tool. So like with any tool, if we don’t use it properly, it might not be helpful. And so it can be great. You could build a business there, there can be wonderful things that happen. We’re connecting now through technology. However, in a developing brain, it can be tricky. Also my other lens with it is they’re looking for connection, and so there are pops in technology, but it’s not a quick fix, and it’s not a replacement, if we can understand what it’s about, then at least we can have compassion. And then okay, what do we need? How can we fulfill this in a real way, in a more balanced way? Because yeah, social media will show us things that seem like everyone has them, or this is what’s normal. And it’s not, it isn’t an accurate representation of the real world. So that can be very confusing. And so we need to, of course, be aware of our own, how much are we diving into the news, or social media, or all these things that are potentially not balanced or healthy. And then yeah, are our teens looking for something? And this is what they have. And now it’s embedded in school.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Well, and I think one of your points that you made earlier around the need to be more transparent and engaging with kids around these things, I think, sometimes, especially when it comes to things like social media and current issues of the day or whatever, it’s a lot easier as parents and adults to just kind of stick our head in the sand and avoid that because we’re uncomfortable or we don’t know what to say, but really, our teens need and want us to be engaging with them around this stuff, right?

Kirsten Cobabe

Totally. I hear it every day from the teens in my life. And they actually want to talk about big things. They have many questions. And it doesn’t mean we have to have the answers, but sometimes we need to be with them in that journey with their questions, or find the answers, or be open to the fact there might not be an answer. It’s about how we live in this place with them, and it takes time and it takes energy, and I think that’s maybe where the rub is, because a lot of people don’t have the time and the energy, or don’t know what to do in those moments, because many of us didn’t have parents that knew how to do that either. And so now we’re having to do our own healing around that and integrating around that, and seeing our parents for who they are, and then also doing it differently. That’s a lot. That’s like three different generations of work.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah, that’s very tricky. I think that’s why parents often feel really at a loss with a lot of this. You’ve touched quite a bit on the importance of connection, and particularly this communication piece. So I want to delve into that a bit. How do we more effectively communicate with our teens? Because I know a lot of parents say, “I feel like my kid never listens to me, it doesn’t matter what I say, he doesn’t listen”, or it’s just these communication breakdowns, maybe even not even knowing how to raise things. So are there some specific tips and ways of approaching this that you have found are helpful around the communication piece?

Kirsten Cobabe

Yeah, one being foundationally getting back to being who we really are, if we’re coming with an agenda, or we’re saying it like a script, your teens will often go, “No thanks”, which is great, we want that. They have a sensitive radar to bullshit, and that’s a good thing, right? Actually, at least that’s what I believe. It is a good thing, this discernment, they’re really growing that, and it is their own inner compass and their instincts. And so we got to get real with just who we are and come from that place, and so then more specifically, if you’re picking your kid up, or they walk through the door in your home, and you’re like, “Hey, how was your day?” They don’t usually want to answer that question, so tired from their day. And that’s where we have actually seen what they’re going through throughout the day and understand it, then we might actually know that question doesn’t really fit. And so, for some teens, it might be having food ready. For other teens, that might be knowing they need an hour to decompress that day. And then we go take a walk, or we watch a show, or whatever it is, and every teen is different and every dynamic is different in the home. When we can get kind of quiet enough to listen not just to the words, but also to the body language, their sensitivities, their passions, what they hate, then there’s actually some clues to how we can connect. And I think we shy away from, culturally at least, the hates and all that stuff, when really, there’s so much in there. If we know what they hate, then we might actually know a little bit of what they want, what they need, what they love, instead of being like, “We shouldn’t hate anything.” And I don’t mean to say “We should hate stuff.” It’s just that teen brain sometimes is like, “I hate this, I love this.” So let’s lean into it. What’s there? What can we get? What can we gain from that, in terms of understanding where they’re at, who they are, and what they need?

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

So it’s really seeing and understanding them as a person, helping them feel seen as a human being before we try to talk with them or communicate with them about specific things, helping them feel seen.

Kirsten Cobabe

Yes, absolutely. Like a human. There’s this concept of othering, or being in the box with someone, and that’s what we do, we start to see someone as “That’s my child.” And yes, that’s true. This is your child. And they’re also a person. And so how would I talk to my friend? Would I get mad at them if they didn’t want to talk about their day? Would I get mad at them if they didn’t want to eat the breakfast I made for them? Probably not? Probably not.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

That’s a really nice way of framing that, and really, it respects the phase of development that they’re in, of moving out of that childhood and thinking about them, not fully as a peer by any means, but thinking about, “How would I communicate with a friend about that?” Yeah, I like that a lot. That’s great.

Kirsten Cobabe

Yeah, sometimes it’s like, “Oh, I made them breakfast or dinner, and they just didn’t eat it.” And the expectation is that they will, and they want to eat, they want to sit down and talk and all this stuff. However, that’s not always the case, especially depending on what’s going on in the family. There might be reasons they don’t want to. And so you can make food and then offer it and say “This is available to you”, and see what happens. The other piece being quality over quantity. So you can have a one minute conversation with a teen and it can be amazingly connected. It is different when they’re four and you’re with them for hours and hours, and all they want to do is play.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yep, that’s true. I’ve experienced that with my own kids, where it does really shift, and you feel like they are kind of spending a lot of time doing their own thing, outside playing basketball or in the room or whatever, and you feel like “Oh, are we spending enough time together?”, but I think that’s a hallmark part of that stage too, giving them space. And I think that can go to an extreme where we do need to pull them back and have them engage more with the family, with other people. But I think recognizing this push towards more independence, doing things on their own, and like you said, focusing on the quality of okay, “Well, I know they’re gonna come to the table for dinner. So we’ll have that moment or in the car or whatever.” But that is a big shift for parents. And I think this is a piece that’s so tough around all of this is that we take it personally. We take it personally, when our kid wants to spend the two hours between after school and dinner in their room or talking with friends or playing a video game or whatever, and not with us. We take it personally when they maybe reject what we think is a perfectly great attempt at making them a meal or doing something nice for them. We make it about ourselves, as opposed to leaning in and understanding what that says about them and how we maybe can approach it differently. And then we get hurt and disappointed and angry and upset, and it becomes the ‘all about us” show right? And look, I say that as a parent. Now my youngest is 16, my oldest is almost 23. I have done this as a parent, and I know better as a professional, I think it’s just, boy, we really go to that place of, “This is now all about me feeling hurt.”

Kirsten Cobabe

Yeah, you’re speaking about what so many people are experiencing right now. And then if that happens, the teen even wants less time with you as the parent, because they’re feeling that, because this is an energetic, dynamic relationship. This is the first language we speak, and it sticks with us. And they are so attuned to you, that they are picking up on all this. And so it does become kind of this spiral. And perhaps we can just acknowledge there might be some grieving in this for the parents, grieving that their little one is no longer little, and that maybe mistakes were made, or “If I only knew what I know now, what I would have done differently,” and all of this, and like, “Oh, I wish I could go back” or whatever is happening in your heart, in your brain, this could be part of why it’s challenging.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

I think that’s so true. And I think again, around your point with being transparent and being able to be sort of vulnerable in our relationship and communication with them, even just owning when we know we are maybe not approaching them in the best way, but we’re not sure what to do”, even just owning that, opening and saying, “Man, I can really see here that I am not approaching this type of situation, I’m not approaching you in a way that feels good to you. I can tell, wow, this is not working. And I’m struggling to know what to do. I really want to connect with you, I really want to understand. I need your help to guide me with what will work for you.” And even when kids shut that down initially, that, I think, is a powerful thing to be able to come to them in that vulnerable way and say, “Boy, I realize I’m screwing this up, and I’m not exactly sure how to make it right.” I think that’s important.

Kirsten Cobabe

It’s so important. This is very vulnerable and real. And I even love the language, because sometimes your kids need to hear you swear, and need to hear you say sorry, or need to hear you say, “Oh, I don’t freaking have a clue.” And that it’s not scary, because you’ll figure it out, it’s not the end of the world kind of thing. But “Oh man, you’re getting older, I’m adjusting and I’m realizing it’s taking more time than I want. I’m screwing up sometimes, I’m really sorry. I’m gonna figure this out”, or “We are” or whatever. Using language that is actually what’s happening instead of pretending it’s not, or being scared that it is, and sort of trying to cover that all up with, “How was your day?” and it’s just not going to fly. It doesn’t really work.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

I think that with tricky topics with kids, I think that there is a sense that a lot of adults have that raising uncomfortable or tricky topics like sex, like pornography, like body image, like climate issues, violence in the world, these things, like we shouldn’t raise those, like, oh, that’s gonna make kids anxious. Or by bringing it up, I’m gonna make them interested in it, and then they’re gonna go and do things like substances, those kinds of things. Can you speak to that? Because I think this is really a misunderstanding, and I think parents unintentionally do the wrong thing here. And so tell us your thoughts on that.

Kirsten Cobabe

We can even look at the most recent studies, that at least I’ve seen, you probably are aware of those, with suicide ideations. We know that actually talking about this doesn’t promote this, it actually informs and creates safer spaces for people to share when they’re struggling early on. And so I feel like, in a lot of ways, it’s similar to that, where we think about going back to technology and being safe with technology or whatever, teens need to know how to be appropriate and safe with their phones. They won’t magically know. Yes, they managed to know how to use these things because they’ve lived with them since they were born, but not necessarily what “I can and cannot do. What’s appropriate.” And so these kinds of conversations, I think, are really intense and can feel scary for parents, because then yeah, “They’re gonna then think they should do this, they’re gonna do the thing that they can’t do.” And really, it’s more conversation about, “Hey, I want you to be totally informed so you can keep making awesome decisions. And also, I want you to know that I’m here when you’re like, ‘I don’t know about this’, when something comes up.” That goes for pornography and all this stuff because there’s so much available on a phone. So we have to actually prepare each other for that responsibility, and what that means and what our role in that is. Well, their role and our role together. And so talking about these things, even asking what they think about these things, and kind of coming up with a plan together and this can change, this isn’t a forever plan. We can reassess as we get older. Gosh, imagine if some of our parents were able to do this with us with any topic, like “What do you think about this?” I’ll ask some of the young people I work with, “Anything weird that’s on your mind?”, just to open those doors. And sometimes there’s not, but they’ll remember that that door was open. And it’s really listening. It doesn’t mean you have to fix or have an answer, because you know what? There’s often not. And the world has a lot of bolts.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

I’m glad you raised the issue around suicide just as one of those topics where we unintentionally can lead kids in the wrong direction, because we believe that by raising it, now we’ve planted the seed and made it more likely. I think sex is another topic where that comes up. Parents really shy away from talking about that, because they think, “Well, if I bring it up, then I’m going to plant the seed and they’re going to be interested and looking into that more.” Here’s the thing: In today’s day and age, if you have a teenager who’s around technology at all, I don’t care how many parental controls you use, and yes, I encourage those, we have to not be so naive to think that kids haven’t already been exposed. And if we aren’t raising these things, we’re actually putting them at greater risk, whether it’s suicide, whether it’s bullying, whether it’s sexual activity, whether it’s substance use, whatever it is. By not bringing these things up and being an open, trusted source of information and giving them good info to work from, we’re actually putting them at greater risk. And I think a lot of parents don’t realize that. We don’t mean to, but I really think that that’s something parents need to be aware of with this age group.

Kirsten Cobabe

Yeah, teens don’t know that they can ask some questions. Even when they’re little, it’s like, “What’s this?” It’s very candid, right? And when they’re bigger, they actually are scared they might get in trouble if they ask this question, because they do get in trouble for asking questions at school. This is what we’re teaching this generation. So we need to unravel that and do that, and even if that’s happening, you can’t change the school situation, at home, open these doors, keep opening the doors, remind them they’re open, that there’s no wrong questions, even if it feels like it at school or wherever else.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

I love that. As we wrap up here, I’d love to just have you share with listeners what’s one thing, if parents are feeling right now like “Boy, I’m just struggling with my teen. I just don’t feel great about our relationship, we’re having a lot of major significant issues”, or anywhere in between. What’s one thing that you would recommend that parents either think about differently or do differently today that can start to pave the way to a stronger and better relationship with our teens?

Kirsten Cobabe

In general, it’s like finding the support for oneself or kind of looking within and spending a little time there. Yes, we want to take action with things and get supports in place and all that stuff. But what is it really about? Just spending some time listening to what’s actually going on inside. And then reaching out to trusted supports, and maybe getting a variety of perspectives, because sometimes we can get so zoomed in as humans, in our own little box, in our own people, in our own world, and sometimes panning out can be supportive while also listening to what’s going on within. Because so much of what you just described can be trying to run away from it even, or fix it. And there’s sometimes a little more time needed to spend in that, unless of course it’s a very dire situation, then right away, do what you need to do, of course. And then also just be curious about “How am I seeing my teen? Am I seeing them with resentment eyes? Am I just listening to their words? Or am I listening to them with my heart?” And just being a little curious of what perspective are we bringing into this? Because they’re going to sense whatever we’re bringing, like we’ve talked about throughout this chat.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

So as with so many things in parenting, it starts with awareness of ourselves and shifting our own mindset. Yeah, that’s well said. I love that. I want to make sure people know where they can find out more about you, the work that you’re doing, tell us all the places.

Kirsten Cobabe

Sure. kirstencobabe.com is a great place to reach out and get connected with me. And then also, you can find me on Instagram @KirstenCobabe, and I’d love to hear from you.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

And you’ve got a great community on Instagram, it’s where we first met. You put some great stuff out there. I just really want to encourage everybody: If you just want a daily injection of positivity around teens, a reminder of what’s important, to step back and looking at the big picture, all of that, follow Kirsten there and you’ll benefit from the posts that she puts up. Kirsten, thank you for being so open and willing and skilled at working with our teens. It is so needed in the world today, and so I appreciate the work you’re doing and also that you were willing to come on the show today. Thank you.

Kirsten Cobabe

Oh my gosh, it’s such a pleasure. Thank you for the very same, and it was lovely chatting with you again here. Thanks so, so much.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

And thank you as always to all of you for being here and for listening. We’ll catch you back here next time.