The Power of Music & Music Therapy for Children

Episode Transcript

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Hi everyone, welcome to the show. I’m Dr. Nicole, and on today’s show, we’re talking about the power of music for children, and how music therapy specifically can help kids with a wide range of challenges. I’ve always loved music, probably partly because I did classical piano training for 12 years while growing up, and music has had a significant impact on me over the course of my life. I first got to experience the benefits of music therapy when I was teaching students with autism about 25 years ago. I was lucky enough to have a piano in my classroom, and I would play and sing with the kids throughout the day. And then we started attending formal music therapy sessions every month, and the benefits in regulation, stress reduction, communication and lots of other areas were really profound. So whether you’ve explored the benefits of music or music therapy for your children or not, I think you’re going to love this conversation with award-winning recording artist and music therapist Ryan Judd. Let me tell you a bit about him.

He lives in Exeter, New Hampshire with his wife and their two young boys. He’s an internationally known music therapist, Billboard chart topping recording artist, and ChildLight yoga and mindfulness instructor. Ryan has a master’s degree in Music Therapy and Counseling Psychology, and has a private practice in music therapy. His two albums of research-based sleep music for children are the top selling sleep CDs for kids on Amazon, and have both won the Parents Choice Award. Ryan’s soothing instrumental music has reached the top 10 of Billboard charts and is featured on Sirius XM’s Spot channel, by the way, one of my favorite channels in my car. His recordings bring together his skills as a music therapist and accomplished fingerstyle guitarist, and have been streamed more than 250 million times. Ryan is committed to making music and meditations to improve the wellbeing of others. Welcome to the show, Ryan, so great to have you here.

Ryan Judd

Thank you so much. It’s an honor.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

So I’m guessing, based on all of your accolades, and all the things you’ve done in your career, that music has always been a pretty big part of your life. But I’m curious to sort of hear the story of the role that music played, maybe even when you were younger, and what specifically led you to a career in the realm of music?

Ryan Judd

I was actually a late bloomer, and there wasn’t much music in the house. There wasn’t even that much music played in the house, which is really interesting. So in high school, you have a friend with a dusty old guitar in the car, and you noodle around and you go to college, and there’s little guitars here and there. But then in college, I was doing my undergraduate in psychology, and I discovered this genre of guitar, this instrumental fingerstyle work, and I just fell in love with it. It was one of those pivotal moments in life where it just feels like a door is opened within your soul, and you know with every cell of your being that you found something that’s going to define your future. So I went for it. I knew I was a late bloomer, so I started taking lessons, practicing like, three, four hours a day. I took it very seriously and graduated with an undergrad in psychology. And then I was thinking, okay I’ve got an undergrad psych, I’d love to do something more. So I started looking at graduate programs. And that’s when I was getting really interested in the eastern arts as well. And I found this amazing school in Boulder, Colorado. It was founded by a Buddhist monk, of course. And it was called the Naropa University, and they had this Master’s in Music Therapy and Psychology, Counseling Psychology program. And oh, to combine my love of working with children, because that was always my jam, working with kids. I always worked with kids for as long as I can remember. It was always just a gift I had, to connect with children and make them laugh, particularly. So I just combined that with my love of music and my interest in eastern arts, and philosophy, and meditation, and mindfulness. So it was a no-brainer to go to Naropa and study Music Therapy and Counseling Psychology.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

What an amazing thing to stumble upon a program that combines those loves together, that lets you get a degree in those things. I think that it clearly was meant to be and you were meant to be on that path. You mentioned that you’ve always loved kids and were good with kids. Did you sort of know from early on that you would do something in your life, related to working with children?

Ryan Judd

Yeah, I would say I probably knew, maybe when I was getting into my early teens or something, when I really started working. Yeah, of course I did the babysitting thing. But then I started doing more like camp counselor stuff, and then you start to hear from people and parents, and you start getting praise and it sounds good. It’s just so natural. You can’t really fake it. Kids know, they smell that from a mile away. So yeah, it just was something that always came naturally to me. And it’s such a joy. I love working with kids, it lets me be a kid. It lets me be silly and goofy and humorous, and I laugh out loud. And being a music therapist, come on, I’m having a bad day, Dr. Nicole, and I go into a session, my day turns around because I’m connecting with this beautiful person and I’m helping them with their goals. And I’m singing and playing instruments, and it’s releasing all that oxytocin and all those feel-good hormones. I mean, it’s really beautiful.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah, it’s great for us and for the kids, right? You know, you raised something there that is sort of where I wanted to go next with this, which is the benefits of music for people in general, which I think we intuitively know, like you just mentioned, if we’re having a bad day, and we sort of know there’s that song that we can turn on, or we get in the car, we turn the radio on, and it can sort of just turn our mood around or soothe us or help us to feel better. So I think intuitively, we sort of get it. But I’d love to have you talk about why music is important and helpful to us. And then I want to get into what music therapy is, specifically. But let’s talk about just the overall benefits of music first, why should we have music in our life?

Ryan Judd

Imagine life without music. Wow, that would be gray. You can use it for so many things. And there’s all the neuroscience behind it, and that’s what’s really beautiful about the field of music therapy right now. Neurological music therapy is really growing and they’re doing all these amazing neuro scan studies now with people engaged in music, and they’re seeing all those feel-good hormones being released, especially when they’re engaged in making music. But from a more passive listening, you also get some benefits. And I feel like there’s music that can elevate your central nervous system. I mean, when I work out, I do an online workout program, but I also have Spotify going at the same time, right? And I’ve got more pumping music because it makes a difference. It helps invigorate and energize my central nervous system. And when I’m focusing, and I’m like, “Oh, I’ve got to get through some emails/Oh my god, I got a spreadsheet to deal with”, when you put on that more focused music — this depends from person to person, there’s subjective elements to it. But that helps me enjoy it more and be more focused. Here’s a story I’ll share: When I was in high school, growing up, a young boy in the 80s, men weren’t that encouraged to be emotive. And so for me, the only way for my heart to open up and to have the tears fall was if there was sad music playing. And so that was one of my first seeds of awareness around the power of music, because it opened up my heart and let me have that catharsis, and it still does to this day, so whether it’s for that or energizing you or making a boring task like emptying the dishwasher better, because as parents, you know, it’s laundry and dishes non-stop. So add some music, parents, please, it’ll make it more enjoyable! So for all those reasons, and many more, music is a beautiful thing in our lives.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

It is, and we don’t often consider how it helps us to regulate and shift our nervous system, our mood, just our sense of being, but I love that you shared that personal story, because we can all think of a time in our lives, a similar experience, like the breakup in middle school or high school, or even college where you just listen to the same song or couple of songs on repeat. We might think, oh, there wasn’t a lot of purpose behind it, but actually there is, and to your point about the studies coming out now of looking at things like fMRI imaging and understanding more of why we might play the same song or track or songs over and over in certain situations, why it is that we can shift our mood state or get more energized or soothe ourselves. And I think, intuitively, humans have been doing that throughout time. And now we just understand more of the science behind why. But I think that’s just so important to understand even as you said, like in the basic, everyday tasks that can shift things and just make things more fun or help us get through them, like spreadsheets, the bane of my existence. If I can have some decent music on while I’m doing that, right? So talk about music therapy, because people, in general, will go “Okay, yeah, I get it, music’s helpful.” Or some people will say to me, “Well, yeah, my kid likes music.” Or some people will say, “Oh, my kids aren’t really that into music.” So let’s talk about why music therapy developed as a discipline, and what we’re really talking about when we say that somebody, a child, or an adult might participate in music therapy. What are those sessions like? What’s happening there?

Ryan Judd

Yeah, so I invite you to imagine a school setting where a young boy with autism who’s nonverbal is being led into a classroom. And there I am sitting with my guitar with a couple other kids around me. And the teacher leads this young boy up to the circle. This boy seems anxious, seems dysregulated, isn’t quite sure what’s happening and what’s going on. It’s something new and different, unsettling, perhaps. But the teacher leads him up and he takes a seat. And I slowly start strumming my guitar, singing a little greeting song, a little hello song. And he looks at that guitar and seems very curious. So I hold the guitar out to him. And while I’m singing and moving my left hand to make the chords, he starts strumming the strings, and I use his name, and I personalize it, and I started singing directly to him. And then I pull back. And we take turns greeting, whether a child is using an augmentative alternative device to say hello, or waving, or saying hello, we take turns greeting our peers and saying hi. And this child starts nervously making a little bit of eye contact, a little bit of connection with his peers. And then we hand out some egg shakers, and he starts shaking the shaker and he’s starting to get into it. You can see starting to warm up, starting to make more contact, his body starts to move a little bit. We all practice our greetings, and then the song ends, and he puts the shaker down. And he signs, “More”. Can you picture that, Dr. Nicole?

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

I can, it brings me back, actually, to that very first classroom of mine for sure.

Ryan Judd

Yeah. So I think on a sensory level, let’s talk about sensory level because I know you’re a huge proponent of that too. And some of my best training has come with my collaboration with occupational and physical therapists, so let’s think about that child shaking the shaker. On a sensory level, what’s being engaged? Oh, my gosh, tactile, they’re feeling the shaker, kinesthetic, they’re moving, their auditory cortex is firing, their motor cortex is firing, their brain is processing the music and the movement simultaneously in multiple areas, both left and right hemisphere. At the same time, it’s one of the most unique stimuli that exists that can do that. So on a sensory level, the rhythm, the cool thing is what the research is showing: It’s more about the rhythm than the melody. There’s a cool saying that melody is king, but rhythm rules. So rhythm trumps melody. And so that’s so much when we’re talking about using music throughout our day. It’s so much of the rhythm. Sure, we have association with the melody and the lyrics, but so much of it is the rhythm. So it’s the rhythm that the central nervous system can connect to, and the rhythm can help shape and guide the central nervous system.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

So true. And I’m so glad you’re talking about that, because it’s one of the things before I even knew anything about this, and just intuitively was working with kids, because a lot of listeners know my story, but my first teaching job was with young autistic children that I didn’t know anything about. Nobody really knew much about autism at the time, it was the mid 90s, and they were like, “Here, do this, you’ll be good at it.” And so I didn’t really know any of the why behind any of it, but I intuitively knew, and the rhythm was such a big piece. I would have these five kids who were off in their own places and dysregulated and even struggling to regulate their body movements, and yet when I could create these rhythmic patterns through music, or even rhythm through, like you said, with the shakers, with a tambourine, or even walking and stomping and movement along with the music, that rhythm was so regulating for them. It would just ground their bodies, and their brains were engaged. That was so fascinating to me. I mean, now I look back and I’m like, “Well, of course”, because I understand all the why behind it. But at the time, I just intuitively knew that it was helpful. And I think that’s such an overlooked and underleveraged tool for kids in school and at home; that idea of using rhythm and using music to help regulate those systems, because it doesn’t take a long time. It’s really pretty powerful to watch it happen.

Ryan Judd

For sure. And there’s a lot of things that parents can do at home with music. And I feel like just to be a little more intentional about it for ourselves and for parents. For ourselves, I feel like you have this sonic medicinal cabinet. You open it up and you say, “Okay, what do I need? Do I need some music to get me motivated and going? Do I need some music to pull my heartstrings? Do I need some music to calm and relax me? Do I just need some music to distract me? I feel like if we’re just a little more intentional about creating playlists, or knowing that go-to song or album, and we just bring in that music more often, it can be really helpful on for parents with kids with special needs, or kids who are neurotypical at home, there’s so much you can do.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah, I want to get more into that. That reminds me of several things that I wanted to talk about, but I love the picture that you painted of what music therapy can look like. You painted this beautiful image of it in a classroom setting or in a therapy environment, music therapy can be done one on one, can be done in group settings, there’s lots of ways it can look, but the goal is really to work on whatever that group of kids or adults, or that individual person is needing, whether it’s communication or sensory work or building relationship, whatever, that you use the music and the movement as a vehicle for that, right?

Ryan Judd

For sure. And I’m glad you mentioned the relationship, because that’s another part about music therapy that’s wonderful. The foundation of all my music therapy work is the therapeutic relationship and trust, the bond that I have with a child, because you’re asking this child to do something that can be very uncomfortable, that they struggle with. They’re struggling to string words together, or do a bunch of signs or use this or whatever it may be, a gross motor skill, a fine motor skill, a social skill. It’s challenging, and so to push them without having that foundation of trust, good luck, it’s not going to go well. But the music, you know what it’s like. You’re a musician, you know what it’s like when the kids are playing along with you, and you’re all joined together. And that’s where you get that oxytocin release, that bonding hormone, how beautiful is that? It comes through interacting musically. So I’m so lucky because I know that a lot of my clients have more challenges outside and present more challenges outside of the session. But when they come in, I rarely have to do any behavioral management stuff, because they’re happy to be there, we have that bond that we’ve created through the music, that respect. I follow their lead, I’m not really pushing them. I meet them where they’re at and then I guide them, but I’m not going to just smack up against them where they’re not. If they come in very energetic, I’m not going to go into something like, “Just relax.” That’s not going to work. I’ll kind of join them a little bit in that energy, and then slowly bring it down. That that can be golden.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah. And it’s just such a beautiful model for really, how we should be engaging with and guiding these kids across the board, right? I’ll never forget. So back when I was in that classroom and we got some funding to start going to these formal music therapy sessions that happened in the county, all of us who taught in these classrooms would come together at one central location and have these formal music therapy sessions, and I’ll never forget it. I thought it was magical. I thought it was great. It happened on a farm. And so it was so cool, I would take the kids around with the animals, and I know all the other teachers were much more seasoned than me, they were looking at me like I’m crazy because I was really into it with the kids. And I remember one of the teachers from another district, saying to me, “Well, they only behave like this here because they get to do what they want to do. This doesn’t carry over.” She was very cynical about it, and I remember looking at her and thinking “Why can’t we do these things? Why does the definition of what we’re doing in these programs and in these school classrooms mean that we can’t meet them where they’re at, or that we can’t match their level of energy, or that we can’t operate in the same way?” Just this idea that “Well, that’s just something that happens during music therapy time. That’s not really the rest of the time.” And I just sort of think, how sad that we don’t look at that as, oh here’s a model for how we could be engaging and relating and supporting and communicating all throughout the day.

Ryan Judd

For sure, for sure. And then sometimes it doesn’t take that much. And oftentimes, the music therapists can really set people up for success because hey, if what a child learned in my music therapy sessions is not generalized outside the music therapy session, what’s the point? I mean, yeah, that’s fine, we’re having a good time. But they need to translate those skills outside. So a lot of it can be those consultations with parents and with other teachers and in team meetings, and seeing what’s working. A lot of it, since most kids now have a tablet or an iPad or something, you can be recording videos of yourself singing songs about taking deep breaths, or singing a new greeting songs or social skill song, on and on and on, and they can have a library on their iPad, and hey, the parent knows exactly where to go to find that. So there’s so many things you can do to help generalize it outside the session.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah, amazing. That’s so true. And you’re right, technology allows us to do that now in ways that we didn’t used to be able to. And it’s bringing back a memory of two kids that I worked with, who were nonspeaking, but when I would get them, we had sort of a rotation of songs. I would do a lot of repetition with many of them, the kids had their favorites. And what amazed me over time, is those kids who were nonspeaking, would sing with the music. So they were vocal and verbal, singing with the music. Now, they weren’t able, because of their apraxia and some of their oral motor issues, just in general, speaking, but they would sing the lyrics totally clearly when there was music and rhythm and relationship added to it. And boy, if that’s not something amazing to think about with how the brain works, right?

Ryan Judd

Beautiful. Music speaks where words fail, right? That’s another wonderful thing about music therapy, is that the child can be self-expressive. They can make music, they can use their voice appropriately and in a welcomed way, without having to get that challenging articulation, which some of them struggle with. So it’s just a really amazing, beautiful way for these kids to express themselves and join in and use their voices. I have one client today who loves proprioceptive feedback, you can hear her coming down the hall because she’s slapping the wall. So she comes into the session, what’s the instrument I give to her? The drum. And so she can appropriately and expressively, and in a way that’s welcome, smack that drum and get all that feedback that she’s craving. And it helps her after the session, then the parents and the teachers go “Oh, my gosh, I wish you could be here to start every day.”

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

That’s right. Yeah, that’s exactly right. We’ve been talking quite a bit about, maybe kids with more significant sensory processing impairment, kids with autism, but I want to make sure that we spotlight for people that music therapy and using music in this way is appropriate for such a broad range of issues and needs, right? I mean, let’s talk about some of that. Like we’re talking about even kids with ADHD, kids with learning challenges, kids with anxiety or all of those things, right?

Ryan Judd

You can teach so much through music. One of my boys has ADHD and anxiety, so I totally get it. And that’s why I started going more into some different realms with my music and my music therapy, and that’s why I started also working in the meditation and the mindfulness to my work, and doing that ChildLight yoga, this amazing workshop, yoga and mindfulness for diverse abilities. I had to start using this with my clients, and then I started using it more with my own kids and it started working beautifully. So there’s so much more you could do, and I feel like being a parent with a newborn and realizing the insanity, the lack of sleep, that’s what prompted me to create those sleep CDs, those sleep albums because I just realized how crazy it was. I’m one of those guys that when I am faced with a challenge myself whether it’s my son having ADHD and anxiety or the insanity of lack of sleep for the parents, I tried to use my unique skill set to do something about.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

I love it. You mentioned a few minutes ago that as parents, we can benefit from this by using music, having playlists and different ways to regulate our nervous systems, and that made me think of when I was doing parent groups and doing a lot more direct clinical work with parents, I would often have them choose a theme song or make a playlist of music, especially the ones that would be get really discouraged or really frustrated with their kids, their nervous systems would get activated very quickly when their child was maybe resistive, or their child was getting dysregulated, and so I’d have them pick a theme song that would sort of pick them up and carry them and help them just to feel more optimistic, but also have some tracks in their playlists that were soothing for them. And if things were really falling apart, they could put their headphones on and listen to that, settle their nervous system. It’s a really powerful tool for us as the adults in the situation too. I think it can be used by teachers, anybody.

Ryan Judd

It’s so easy these days. And the morning times are crazy, night time is so crazy. Weekends are crazy. So morning time, I almost always have some very chill, relaxing music playing before the kids even come down into the kitchen. Right? And I’m not saying that that makes all the mornings all mellow and peaceful, but it helps, and I tell you, when there’s a frustrating event that passes and there’s a moment of silence and all sudden that music comes through, it’s this reorienting, recentering point, it’s that whisper in your ear that says “Come back to your center. Take a deep breath”, and I’ve learned what kinds of music my kids like and that I like, so they don’t. They don’t like my music so much, they call it sappy. “Daddy, your music is too sappy!” I’m always like “Alexa, turn on Ryan Judd.” My boys are like “Alexa, turn it off!” If I put on some Chillhop, so you’re familiar with Chillhop, right?

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

My kids introduced me to that, and I love those playlists now!

Ryan Judd

Good stuff because it’s almost exclusively instrumental. If there’s vocals they’re usually just vocalizations, there’s nothing inappropriate. It’s got that cool hip hop beat and hip hop feel, yet it’s all between 60 beats per minute and 90 beats per minute, which is that tempo that the research shows elicits the relaxation response. So having music on in the background, and then getting your kids dressed, I was getting so frustrated a couple of weeks ago. And I’m like, “Come on, man! Alexa, play a get dressed song for kids.” And they have this awesome song by this band, like a pop band, it comes on. And all of a sudden the kids are just doing it. And some mornings they don’t want the music, and I respect that. But it’s always a nice choice to have. And a lot of times we’ll all do too, and I encourage parents to do this one thing that’s been driving me crazy is putting on sunscreen, right? I’m so glad that we’re moving to fall and done with sunscreen. I was going to lose my mind with the sunscreen thing. But I sing, I’m just making up a song. Right? Take a simple familiar melody. We’re not talking about a symphonic composition here. We’re talking about taking Twinkle, Twinkle, or Row, Row, Your Boat or Old MacDonald Had a Farm, and you know, “Putting on the sunscreen nice and slow, putting on the sunscreen, here we go. A little on your neck, hold on tight”, and I’m just riffing right now. I’m just making it up. It doesn’t even need to rhyme. It’s fun to try to rhyme, but I just encourage parents, for your own sanity and your child’s, try to add some music into some of those activities that might be a little frustrating, that they might be a little fidgety and resistant too.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah, or that get you activated in a way that you know is unhelpful. And we can be proactive about that because we know when those situations are coming, right? I’m thinking of sort of what I call the witching hour for families, before dinner, right. And it’s like everybody’s going nuts and you’re trying to get dinner on the table, and so I often say to people, have a playlist, put some music in the background that just provides some regulation and just keeps things a little more chill. What I love about all of this: It’s so easy to access, it’s free, whether you have subscriptions to things or not, and most of us do, but you can get this stuff out there. And it just is not going to harm anything. And why not try it because it can just have such a nice regulating, regulating effect? And the making up songs, what I always found, my kids are older now, but when they were little, the only problem I would run into with that is that if they were like, “Mommy, sing that song again about the tying the shoes”, and then I’m like, “Oh my gosh, what did I say? What were the lyrics?” Right? So that I’m just like, “Oh, let me try to remember how I put that song together.” But I think one of the things I want to touch on there and just have you encourage parents, because sometimes they’ll say, “Well I can’t sing/I’m not musical”, you actually don’t have to have talent to be able to do this. Kids actually don’t care.

Ryan Judd

They don’t care. That’s what the research shows. They do not care about the tone of your voice and how on pitch it is. So you know, rhythm stuff can be fun too. Going back to the melody’s king but rhythm rules. So it could be, if you’re really like not feeling like singing, although that’s good for you because it’s going to release those feel-good hormones, but if you really want to just do something rhythmic, “Putting on the sunscreen, 123, putting on the sunscreen, you and me”, and just kind of almost like rap it. So that’s an option, too.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah, I want to touch on what you said when you were talking about, that you’ll put on different music at different times for your kids. But you said if they don’t want it on, you respect that. Let’s touch on that a minute because I think there might be some parents listening who are like, “Okay, this all sounds great. But my kid is really sensitive to certain sounds, or sometimes I’ll have music on and it seems to bother them or they want it off.” But what do you say to parents around that? Because I think sometimes parents shut down to that then, and they’re like, “Oh, my kid, music isn’t for my kid, I’m not going to play it at all”, or they try to force the issue, the other extreme. Can you just talk a little bit about how to balance that?

Ryan Judd

Yeah, well I feel like you really got to respect that. If a child is saying turn it off, turn it off, and you’re saying “No, I’m going to keep playing it,” I feel like just creating a negative association with music, right? So we don’t want to do that. So let’s not go there. But I feel like, just keep trying, keep trying different styles of music, keep trying different songs. Just like you and me, if I put on 20 songs, you might like one or two. And some of them you’d be like, “Oh my god turn it off, I don’t want to hear that”, so you got to keep trying. Try different genres. Try Latin jazz and try new age instrumental music and try Chillhop, and hey, let’s try some nature sounds, like just having some soothing ocean waves or rain sounds in the background. Let Mother Nature be the musician. That could be cool too. But I do think it’s important to follow your child’s lead and to respect them if they say no. And it’s this benign thing that they can have control over. If it’s a little bit of a power struggle and they say, “Turn off the music,” okay, that’s fine. Go ahead. And you’re giving them like, “Oh, I just won one, I just got to control something.” So then they don’t have to control something that is going to be more important for them to really do or follow through with, you know what I’m saying.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

That’s such a great point. And I think the other piece is sometimes the trial and error is a bit about volume too. And one of the things that I’ve noticed, especially with kids who have a lot of auditory sensitivity, sometimes we can play music or sounds at an almost imperceptible level where we’re like, I’m not sure that we can even really hear that, but they do. And so even just to experiment with volume or distance from the speaker, in the car, sometimes that’s an issue. And all parents say, “Well, I’ve got this one kid who wants to listen to it, and this other kid is like, turn it off. I can’t take it” And so headphones can be helpful there, but also just playing with the volume of it. Sometimes what we think is a comfortable listening volume, a child that has some sensitivities, that may not be the music they’re objecting to or the sound, it may be the volume, so just playing around with those things, right?

Ryan Judd

Another thing that they can control, let them go up to the little speaker or whatever your device is if you’re not driving, and let them control the volume there, to have them dial it in so it’s just right. So I think that’s really important, too, that’s a really great point. And I feel like as parents, I know, my hearing loss since I had a baby has gone downhill from all the screaming and two people talking at the same time. Oh, my gosh. So I would definitely assume that biologically, our children have much better hearing than we do.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Yeah, what’s comfortable for them may be very different from our experience of that for sure. But I love the idea of just respecting where they’re at and letting them have some control over it, and I think there’s such therapeutic benefit in that. You’ve provided some great tips and strategies for using this at home. I know that you incorporate things like breathing and meditation and mindfulness in with the music too, which is just a lovely marriage of those things. We’ve had other episodes where we’ve talked about things like breathwork and meditation and mindfulness sort of in isolation, and sometimes with the music, too, but you’ve got a really beautiful way of bringing that together for kids. And I wonder if you would give us all the pleasure of hearing, just having you take us through an experience of you playing music and incorporating maybe some breathing or some mindfulness into it.

Ryan Judd

Yeah, let’s do one that’s more geared towards my clients. I wrote a song for a particular client. He’s amazing. He has autism and he’s blind, and he has perfect pitch. And so I play a note on tune in my guitar, he’s telling me what I’m playing, it’s just beautiful. I can play any note, and he knows what it is just by hearing it. So cool. Just super sweet, awesome dude. But he’s got a lot of anxiety, especially when things are unexpected, certain sensitivities to wind. And so I customize these songs for him, and I incorporate them, and we have one called Low and Slow, because I think when you’re working on breathwork with yourself or with a child, it’s got to be low and slow. It’s got to be breathing low into the belly. So that’s where I think it’s really fun to use things like a Hoberman sphere to help a child know their belly when they inhale, exhale, or have a little lovey or a little stuffy on their belly at night when you’re practicing this, and have them rise up that little stuffy with an inhale, and the stuffy goes down a little bit with an exhale. So Low and Sow is a song I wrote for him, and I’ll play a little bit of it for you. There’s many verses because what I do is there’s kind of the main part, the low and slow part, but then there’s the verse where I can customize it and tailor it to that specific triggering event, triggering anxiety. But this is kind of a fun little fun one, and there’s breathing within it. So I encourage everyone to breathe along with the music too. Awesome.

Ryan Judd

All right. Low and slow is the way to go. Low and slow is the way to go. Low and slow is the way to go. If you’re feeling nervous, worried or anxious too, here’s what you can do. Keep your breath low and slow, it’s the way to go.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Beautiful.

Ryan Judd

It’s fun, right? I mean, it’s cool because you’re teaching the cognitive behavioral strategy of taking a deep breath when you’re feeling anxious, but you’re practicing it with the music. So I feel like the music can give it that, again, the rhythm, the rhythmic piece of “Oh, it’s slow. We’re not doing it fast. It’s a nice slow breath. So I’ve got a bunch of those different songs, but that’s kind of one of my favorites.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

I love it. Well, it’s one that just applies to all of us as humans in today’s world. That’s going to stick with everybody listening. I guarantee you, there’s going to be moms, dads, teachers, replaying that little snippet over and over. Just beautiful and so simple, but so effective. I think you’ve done a great job of convincing people of the power of music and the importance of including this in our day to day lives, using this to support ourselves and our kids. I’m curious, a couple of things I want you to share with people: Where they can find out more about your work, your songs, but also if people are thinking, “I think my kid could really benefit from some music therapy. It’s not something that’s offered in their school, I’d like to seek out a resource.” Is there a resource for people to find music therapists in their own community?

Ryan Judd

For sure, the American Music Therapy Association, musictherapy.org has a “Find a therapist” button, and also the CBMT, Certification Board of Music Therapists also has a similar link. So we’ll put those in the show notes for people to check out.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Awesome. And for people who are saying, “I need to know more about Ryan and what he’s doing. And also, where do I get his music?” Give us the details. That will be in the show notes too, but tell people where they can get more of you.

Ryan Judd

Yeah, well, I am on all streaming platforms. So whether it’s Spotify, Pandora, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, whatever, you can find me there by just looking up Ryan Judd. If you want to follow more of my music when I have new releases and I share a little bit more about my projects and my music therapy, you can go to ryanjuddmusic.com. If you want to see more of my music therapy work, I have tons of videos of me actually working with clients, because the best way to really understand is to see it. therhythmtree.com. I have a video blog there and also a YouTube channel. And my new project Cool Koala, is this beautiful app that we just released, of guided bedtime meditations for kids, because as parents know, bedtime can be crazy, right? So these meditations are just so beautiful. And it has my sleep music going on too. So we’re getting amazing feedback from parents about “Oh my god, nothing worked until this. This is making bedtime so much easier. My kid’s falling asleep, they’re not calling for me every five minutes after I turn the lights off.” And within the meditations are beautiful themes like developing compassion and gratitude, letting go of worries, dealing with anger and frustration. So that’s Cool Koala, and we’re at coolkoala.co, and you can find us on Instagram Cool Koala Bedtime. YouTube. We’re about to release a bunch of awesome videos on YouTube and Instagram. So I’m really excited about that too. So I’ve got the Three Hats, Cool Koala, Ryan Judd Music, and Ryan Judd Musician, but they all play in the same sandbox beautifully.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Oh, I love it. And how exciting about that app! Is that available then people can get it on Android and Apple devices?

Ryan Judd

Yeah, we just have it on Apple. And we also have it as an Alexa skill. So if you have an Amazon Alexa speaker, you could say, hey, Alexa, open up Cool Koala Skill, and it’ll start guiding you through the process, and it’s really cool, too, for kids who have a speaker in their room and can listen to the meditations at bedtime.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

That’s great, because boy, bedtime and sleep is such a challenge for so many people. So, yeah, you’re going to have a lot of people right now who are already on their device going, “Let me find this and download it immediately to use starting tonight.” Ryan, I just am so grateful for just who you are as a person, a professional, your amazing talent, the heart that you have for all of this, and just really using your gifts with kids and sharing them with the world in this way. It’s just really beautiful. So important. Thank you. Thank you for the work that you’re doing.

Ryan Judd

Oh, you’re so very welcome. And thank you so much for having me. This was so exciting, when I saw that I was going to be a guest! It was just like it was one of those arms up moments, like “Yes, I get to connect with Dr. Nicole! She’s so amazing!”, and you have so many beautiful resources to offer parents, so it’s just a coming together of two like minds. I love it.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

Absolutely. We could talk for hours; I think we’re going to have to have you back and do some more music and some more things. I know that people aren’t going to love this episode. But we appreciate you spending the time with us today. Thank you for being here.

Ryan Judd

You’re welcome.

Dr. Nicole Beurkens

And thanks, as always, to all of you for being here. And for listening. We’ll catch you back here next time.